KVR Audio

Scot Solida · Post by **Scot Solida** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:52 pm

PaulSC wrote:Hmm, pretty sure this is a typo (?):

Scot Solida wrote:What I do know is that I stand by my assessment that the Neuron is worth the $1000 gamble at this time.
Did you intend the opposite?

Yeah, that's a typo!

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 4:56 pm

I have to say having eagerly followed the debate in both forums I'm not at all impressed by the way the Hartmann mods seem to be continually implying (without actually stating it outright) that CM didn't contact them when you'd have thought they would know or at least be able to check if they did, and the way they seem to be trying to rubbish the review and Scot's reputation using some very snide remarks. I think it's very unprofessional to say the least and frankly makes me less inclined to believe their side or feel confident about their claims about the reliability of their product.

Scot Solida · Post by **Scot Solida** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:07 pm

aMUSEd wrote:I have to say having eagerly followed the debate in both forums I'm not at all impressed by the way the Hartmann mods seem to be continually implying (without actually stating it outright) that CM didn't contact them when you'd have thought they would know or at least be able to check if they did, and the way they seem to be trying to rubbish the review and Scot's reputation using some very snide remarks. I think it's very unprofessional to say the least and frankly makes me less inclined to believe their side or feel confident about their claims about the reliability of their product.

Well, the fact is that we did indeed contact them. More than once. The replies were brief and shed little or no light on the problems. We also contacted the distributor when Hartmann was slow to respond to our inquiries.

But I won't bother defending myself on that point. The fact is that I don't need to. I have nothing to gain or to lose by being honest about the Neuron's shortcomings.

It boggles the mind that they are willing to partake in such shenannigans instead of simply saying "yeah, some folks found some problems, and we are working to fix them".

aMUSEd · Post by **aMUSEd** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:11 pm

I know you did Scot - it's not your integrity I'm questioning

droolmaster0 · Post by **droolmaster0** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 5:59 pm

Scot Solida wrote:I have to say having eagerly followed the debate in both forums I'm not at all impressed by the way the Hartmann mods seem to be continually implying (without actually stating it outright) that CM didn't contact them when you'd have thought they would know or at least be able to check if they did, and the way they seem to be trying to rubbish the review and Scot's reputation using some very snide remarks......

It boggles the mind that they are willing to partake in such shenannigans instead of simply saying "yeah, some folks found some problems, and we are working to fix them".

I currently have a Neuron VS on order, so, of course, I've been reading this thread, and the posts on the Hartmann forum with great interest.

What do I see on the Hartmann forum? I see one person who is a programmer for Hartmann, but not someone who is involved with their support. He theorized that you didn't contact support, but only because there ARE apparently lots of people who are not having problems as bad as yours. He never stated this as fact one way or the other. There is a new moderator, and (perhaps I've forgotten a post), I don't recall him saying anything other than that most users are having success, and that support won't know about a problem unless people tell them. (I took the latter to mean that if users were having problems that THEY should tell support)

He also stated pretty much exactly what you imply that they haven't said - that there were problems with the initial version and that they are working hard to have them fixed.

I also don't get the impression that most people are failing to make music with the VS. At least, from the posts that I have read there.

So, in reading what you write, and what I see on the Hartmann forum, I am not inclined to cancel my order. But, if there are to be charges of exaggeration, I would certainly say that you are engaging in it at least as much as Hartmann is.

Ocean Zen · Post by **Ocean Zen** » Mon Mar 07, 2005 6:24 pm

I've got to say, I want the Neuron VS, but just like the Logic Pro 7 upgrade, I'll wait until they've ironed out all the bugs before considering it.

proto39 · Post by **proto39** » Fri Mar 11, 2005 6:58 pm

I played the Neuron in a studio, with some nice JBLs and explored it in and out. I was unimpressed, it seriously cannot do anything that can already be done [soundwise] with a good sampler and effects. I'm sorry that some people spent over $3,000 on the Neuron, but that's the truth. I might be biased, because I generally prefer analog, but nowadays softsynths are very good. I even use softsynths in my studio, which several years ago I wouldvn't never dreamed of. There is just no excuse for an overpriced synth like the Neuron, they should be ashamed of themselves for ripping off muscians. I DO believe that the Neuron shows promise in what may be something new for future synths, but with a limited polyphony (I noticed dropouts on simple patches, nowhere near their supposed '32' voice count) and excessive pricetag, I dont see what they are trying to do.

nf77345 · Post by **nf77345** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 5:37 am

32 voices? audiomidi.com claim 16-48 while some users report 2-8 depending on the sound complexity.

proto39 · Post by **proto39** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:36 pm

[quote="nf77345"]32 voices? audiomidi.com claim 16-48 while some users report 2-8 depending on the sound complexity.[/quote]

It could very well be that I was playing pretty complex patches, and thus the polyphony was waaay down... But I was getting close to what some users reported, I think it was close to 8 voices. In either case, I've read about and played the Neuron several times (I was considering buying it when it first came out), but I was able to acheive similar results with a hardware sampler and outboard effects.

There's also the chance the presets just don't do the machine justice, that's definately a possibility. The unit is still overpriced, and there are simply cheaper options for getting similar if not identical results.

nf77345 · Post by **nf77345** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:45 pm

Can you list some examples of how to get those sounds from other hardware? thanks

fitch · Post by **fitch** » Mon Mar 14, 2005 6:50 pm

Ocean Zen wrote:I've got to say, I want the Neuron VS, but just like the Logic Pro 7 upgrade, I'll wait until they've ironed out all the bugs before considering it.

you hit the nail on the head there ocean

absolutely

lets wait and see ..

Ocean Zen · Post by **Ocean Zen** » Wed Mar 16, 2005 9:50 pm

I've just read the April Issue of Sound on Sound, and Derek Johnson gave Neuron VS a glowing review.

He even said, "the software seems very stable: it never actually crashed a computer I tried it on,even when it overloaded the audio system."
Quite a contradiction to Computer Music's findings.

krhen · Post by **krhen** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:01 pm

Now I'm really confused but I ordered mine, so I'll have to give a first-hand review when I get it!

droolmaster0 · Post by **droolmaster0** » Thu Mar 17, 2005 9:14 pm

Just received mine at work. Will try tonight. In the next few days I'll try it on mac and pc, and in a variety of hosts. I'm very curious to see whether I replicate any of the results from the bad review.

Also interesting that Sound on Sound gave it that glowing review. They had totally trashed the hardware Neuron a couple of years ago...

droolmaster0 · Post by **droolmaster0** » Fri Mar 18, 2005 3:37 am

Received my VS and have now played around with it for about an hour. The computer is one I didn't intend for musical use initially, but since it is so much faster than my G4, and since I like some of the Windows soft synths so much, I've kind of gravitated to it. It's just a cheap Emachines ($599) 3.06 ghz machine, probably scorned by many of the users here.

I tried it on a variety of hosts - Bidule, Tracktion, EnergyXT, and Samplitude.

I could not get it to crash once. Messing with various presets and the Nuke controller, I found that it was cpu hungry, but not more so than some of the really cpu hungry synths out there. I did have to change the latency setting on my audio interface to 256 samples from 128 to avoid clicks and pops, but once I did so, they stopped completely.

I found the sound to be absolutely fantastic - exactly what I was looking for. Tremendously alive, evolving textures, with the ability to wreak total havoc with the Nuke controller.

Obviously sound quality, and taste in synths is subjective. But, here I am, new to windows for music, pretty much a beginner when it comes to configuring xp for optimal audio performance, and I had absolutely no problems at all running the Neuron VS in any of these hosts. There are some known issues - the preset isn't saved automatically with the hosts session, for instance. And damn if I can't figure out how to record the Nuke's motions into a sequencer - it'd be a shame if you couldn't do that.

But how could a reviewer (much more expert than me)have had no success at all in any hosts on either platform? Unless there was some kind of hardware issue, or other conflict....in any case, I was obviously concerned, and considered bailing on my order, but some good reviews on the Hartmann forum made me take the chance. All I can say is, there is something not right with that review.

Hartmann Neuron VS is shipping