KVR Audio

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:05 pm

d2

How much would you pay for such a series of videos per pluggin?

What a loaded question

Here goes:

If a plug retails for $149 or more then let's say it falls in the professional class, and represents a serious attempt at a business.

So IMO a pro plug deserves pro support.

But as it happens, most ppl can scrounge a camcorder for a day.

And a tripod is maybe $50.

A demo or freeware vid edit package shouldn't run to too much.

We're not talking rocket science here. Speak some words while the camera is running, then chop up the footage, and compress down to a downloadable avi.

The quality will be acceptable.

What counts is the content, which should be ace as each dev knows their software's best tricks, and should be keen to tell them

What's the big deal.

3 days work, all in all, I'd guess.

Don't devs want to swank their software's best tricks, and tell us all how great it can sound if you just do this little tweak here ...

If any dev seriously wants to know more then pm me.

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:11 pm

bool

Another vote for Windows Help files and Flash here

Flash is good but it's expensive to buy and complex to learn. Or expensive, if you hire a programmer, eg one single chapter for a plug browser could cost $1,000, no problem.

And if it needs updating for v2, you pay again.

Straight video is simple and more DIY, and of acceptable quality.

Windows help files? Are these truly audiovisual or just text and pix?

SaviorNeeded · Post by **SaviorNeeded** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:14 pm

Any plug that sells for $149 or more is almost always sold from a slick, professionally produced website designed to impress the viewer and make the company look substantial. It seems to me that adding video tutorials would not only be the smart thing to do, I'm surprised it isn't considered SOP all across the board. Kevvvvv, you're right--and maybe someday soon all such sites will considere it a blatant no-no to not include this sort of thing.

Tom

SaviorNeeded · Post by **SaviorNeeded** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:18 pm

I like pdf better because I have no trouble printing them out on my office's high-speed color lazer

Yesterday I decided to do a search to see if there were a few I hadn't yet printed out--found about 350 pages worth!! And I printed them out after the boss left.

Tom

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Tue Dec 21, 2004 11:19 pm

SaviourNeeded

Kevvvvv, you're right--and maybe someday soon all such sites will considere it a blatant no-no to not include this sort of thing.

Thank you for your support

d2 · Post by d2 » Wed Dec 22, 2004 3:36 am

It's clear to me that nobody here has ever produced any video for release to the general public.

A camcorder and tripod ... and just point it at the screen? Sheeesh.

I'm sure that might be fine for some people, but I'll guarantee you that unless they spend some serious coinage and produce something half-assed "pro quality" people will bitch about the blurry video and muffled audio.

And keep in mind Kevvvvv, I support the notion of better tutorials in principle. I just think your are engaging in a bit of "whim worship" catered to your own special needs.

Please don't fall into the "I want it, so everyone must want it" pattern of thinking. I'll guarantee you that if Company X did their documentation and tutorials 100% the "perfect way" in your opinion, most of the customer base would think it's crap.

That's not a slight against you either ... the same thing would apply if they did it 100% my way or almost anyone else's.

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:23 am

Right on Kevvvv. I could use this kind of direct tutorial with so many of my plugins. It ould save many a headache.

x_bruce · Post by **x_bruce** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:24 am

d2, I know for a fact that you're wrong

I worked for a company that did things like videos for complex programs. It's not like you need a crew of union guys, a boom, 3 pzm mics and an array of multiple cameras shooting in sync.

You could do the screen shots for next to nothing and there are programs that allow you to automate the screen, save it as a video and let you add soundtracks. They've been doing things like this for a decade; remember the Lotus screencam program, can't remember the name, but even Microsoft used the technology until they found a way to bollocks it up under their own name.

Many of the 3D and video programs have tutorials, Lightwave has a series of them. I have a few tutorials having used the Lotus software that allowed you to save screen movements and audio. I've been out of the field for a long time but I assure you it could be done using any number of systems. I know people that built their own audio/visual programs.

As for bad manuals, I'll discuss:
PPG Wave 2.v - almost extinct but the manual was shite.
FM-7 - this is a tremendous synth but if it's going to discuss FM synthesis it sure would be nice having a few tutorials and a minimal explaination of basic 6 OP FM. The manuals were 400 pages on the synths and tutorial books were 600 - 1000 pages.
Vaz Modular 3 - it's modular, it's fairly easy, the manual is tiny, and so we are clear I love this synth have spoken to the developer and it's clear to all the manual can use updating
Cubase, take your pick of year or version. They plain suck. I'm always happy for people that like PDF files but I hate them as the main manual and the getting started manuals are poop. I hate reading 1000 pages of various manuals and wonder what problem I'll encounter with each use
Logic PC up to 5.0 - do the words 'user hostile' sound good? Props for the people that support Logic Platinum, it's not the old Emagic but some dealers that put user groups together. Of course if you had anything other than Platinum you were asked why you bothered using the inferior version.
Steinberg PLEX - is it an entry level instrument, is it a tech bulletin, no; it's a Steinberg manual that doesn't tell you how to save a patch but can tell you what time of day Wolfgang Palm likes moving his bowels....

I will say this in Vaz's favor. Martin's customer service is exceptional. Have a problem? You'll get an answer often in the same day either on their forum or by Martin himself.

btw, great documentation:

LinPlug - Albino 2, RMIV, CronoX all have great manuals that are fairly short and still convey how to use the synth.

Ohm Force - in general high quality manuals for very different and equally baffling synths and effects. While a bit technical the manuals stay within a reasonable length and have a mixture of detailed discussion and tutorial like segments.

Cakewalk Sonar 4 - dense and not as good as the 3rd party books by Scott Garrigus, which are exceptionally well written. Project 5 - it has a different work flow that takes getting used to and the manual actually encourages you to learn. Fairly short and useful.

VirSyn CUBE and TERA 2 manuals are modest in length and cover a lot of information, theory and interesting discussion.

the best! iZotope, oZone, Spectron and Trash are great manuals. oZone still has that mastering mini-book which is good in general, not just the program. Spectron is a wild effect and requires some understanding. The docs get you up to speed as does Trash. My favorite manuals and I can even stand them though they're in PDF form.

bluedad · Post by **bluedad** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 4:30 am

I hate pdf's. my short term memory is so bad, by the time I've clicked over to my app, I've forgotten what I've read!

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 9:19 am

bluedad wrote:I hate pdf's. my short term memory is so bad, by the time I've clicked over to my app, I've forgotten what I've read!

That's what dual monitors are for.

I'd prefer HTML over PDF any day though, because you can do things such as "open link in new window".

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:03 am

kevvvvv wrote:But as it happens, most ppl can scrounge a camcorder for a day.

And a tripod is maybe $50.

A demo or freeware vid edit package shouldn't run to too much.

Unless you know what you are doing and are willing to invest (1) in some good gear the result will be shit.

We're not talking rocket science here. Speak some words while the camera is running, then chop up the footage, and compress down to a downloadable avi.

It really isn't that simple.
If you're going to follow the route you describe, it would be better not to use video at all. It will save you a lot of time.
Just "[speaking] some words while the camera is running" will result in unusable audio.

The quality will be acceptable.

It won't be, unless you're very lucky.
Flash and a screen-grab utility would be a much better option.
If you want voice-overs, you'll need good vocal-recording equipment.

Groet, Erik

kevvvvv · Post by **kevvvvv** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 1:11 pm

erik and d2 ... you've both got the wrong end of the stick.

I guess neither of you've actually tried to do what you're suggesting can't be done

Reread xbruce's post. He's not lying.

But to move onto the positive:

There's an inertia gap that needs bridging.

Life's too full of "we always do things this way".

A dev attitude that says "yes, I can ... and I feel good about myself for it too" is all that's needed.

Willingness to improve and try new ways

I think any dev would be proud to demonstrate the great sneak features of their plug

All it takes is a little practice and a second hand digital camcorder.

The golden rule of video, for me at least, is:

If the content's great then the quality's not a big issue

...

And while I'm here:

I loathe pdf manuals. Acrobat f**ks up cubase menory.

I hate printing manuals as I don't have pro binding, and big only-printed-on-one-side A4 pages flop all over the place.

And let's bury this flash myth.

I get paid for developing flash audiovisuals. They're expensive, demanding and time-consuming to to produce.

...

I guess I've been a bitch in this rant, cheerfully slamming down what I think are misinformed ideas. Sorry

These are my awards for multimedia video from the last 6 years:

- Innovative Use of IT Award

- Europrox Quality Seal

- Interactive Media Project of the Year

- International Video & Communicating Arts Award

plus 5 or so smaller ones

tetraplan · Post by **tetraplan** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:20 pm

kevvvvv wrote:erik and d2 ... you've both got the wrong end of the stick.

I guess neither of you've actually tried to do what you're suggesting can't be done

Let's just say you're... mistaken about this.

Groet, erik

Beardedone · Post by **Beardedone** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:29 pm

Cubase, take your pick of year or version. They plain suck. I'm always happy for people that like PDF files but I hate them as the main manual and the getting started manuals are poop. I hate reading 1000 pages of various manuals and wonder what problem I'll encounter with each use
Logic PC up to 5.0 - do the words 'user hostile' sound good?

Now that's an understatement or two. It's almost like they are adressing the users that are genetically programmed to get it without instruction. Even rocket scientists need training you know.

hao nao · Post by **hao nao** » Wed Dec 22, 2004 6:53 pm

Camtasia is one product intended for making screen-capture tutorials:

http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/default.asp

as for me, I need my instructions written down if something takes more than three or four steps

it would be nice if there was something like a generic cookbook for synth/plugin programming that had recipes showing typical ways to combine, route or layer various elements

The "Wot - No Tutorial" rant