Sytrus 1.5?

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note: after more tests I still have doubts about the use of the gibb's phenomenon removal.

True, it make it looks like the original waveform is more respected. But it seems to be just about that, the look. There's a difference in the sound, it's (of course, considering we smoothed out higher harmonics) not as bright anymore, and I'm not sure it's a good thing. Now the sound is not unpleasant, but noticably different.
More, it could become a huge problem if you apply a waveshaper.

I'll make it an option.
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will the new sytrus work in FL 4.5 as a native plug in? or will I have to use it as a vst external plug in?
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will the new sytrus work in FL 4.5 as a native plug in?
of course, sytrus is still developped as a native FL plugin, and then we build a VSTi version of it.
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great. well what I meant is that I'll have to use it in 4.5 and not in FL5 because of this really weird midi problem I have in FL5. damn!
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there's no known/reported new midi problem in FL5

btw I hadn't fully read: no I'm not sure it will work in FL 4.5. I don't think that Sytrus in FL5 works in 4.5, but if it does (does it?), then the new version might as well.
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gol, we have already debated this. I KNOW it's not a problem with FL, since I'm the only one who's having this problem. But still in practical terms the problem persists in my FL5 while not in my FL4, that's why I still use the older version.

btw...could there be any way to implement FPC plug in in FL4.5???
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gol, we have already debated this
can't remember
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well I'll repeat it but it's just that I don't want to grow tiresome.

When I press some keys (I think they were F3 and F5) in my midi controller, the notes either don't sound or they sound distorted. this happens in FL5 when using both vst synths and samples.

BUT it doesn't happen in older versions of FL, for example in my FL 4.5 I've been suing for a year now.

you told me it was probably due to problems with my midi keyboard, and I won't say no, but the thing is that it works perfect in FL4.5 or with standalone synths...

that's all.
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Sorry to get off track (and back to what this post is about)......looks good, Gol. Imports of single cycle waves too. The 'save' feature would have been nice, but I'm more than happy with what you're doing. Thanks.
I've been meaning to re-review Sytrus at some point, after now owning it for a while, so I guess I can just hold on until after the release.

(BTW, I'm joking in that first sentence, origami :-) )
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so what are the limitations of the wav import- I know its single cycle, but how many samples long can it be?

Also in the future it would be nice to be able to import full length samples, is this a possibility? If not thats fine since I have other things that can do this- just thought it would be nice to put single shot hits/samples into sytrus.
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Hey Gol!

Sytrus 1.5 looks awesome.....

What are the filter improvements?

What New FX?

Is there ever a chance of a nice Arp in Sytrus?

I use Live, which won't allow passing of midi from one plug to the other, so I can only use arps that are built in.
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I read somewhere that gol added a reverb....no idea on the filter changes....
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gol wrote: I know I read what was the gibbs effects and how to remove it, but the paper wasn't telling why that gibbs effects was actually bad, audio-wise.
Hi Gol,

Gibbs sounds bad as soon it happens in the audible range :).

Now really, as you probably read, everywhere a spectrum has a sharp feature (peak or step) you get Gibbs, ie, you get Gibbs (ringing) at the frequency where the spectrum has a steep slope.

As for an anti-aliasing filter, because it must have a steep slope, you get Gibbs at 22050 Hz, but that's ok.

But a "musical" filter must never have too steep of a slope as you get Gibbs at the cutoff frequency, even without resonance.

If an additive synth stops adding harmonics beyond 4 kHz, you get Gibbs at 4 kHz, because that is equivalent of a very steep filter at 4 kHz.

I hope I was not too confusing :)

Cheers,
btw, Sytrus is 8)
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gol wrote:note: after more tests I still have doubts about the use of the gibb's phenomenon removal.

True, it make it looks like the original waveform is more respected. But it seems to be just about that, the look. There's a difference in the sound, it's (of course, considering we smoothed out higher harmonics) not as bright anymore, and I'm not sure it's a good thing. Now the sound is not unpleasant, but noticably different.
More, it could become a huge problem if you apply a waveshaper.

I'll make it an option.

Yes I originally imagined it as an option only - I just knew that waveforms approximated with a finite number of harmonics usually have that 'additive' sound - you can pick out the frequency of the last harmonic - so it's just a thought. I haven't done tests like you have. I'll do some experimenting now and see.
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so what are the limitations of the wav import- I know its single cycle, but how many samples long can it be?
any, but it will 'only' use the first 128 harmonics of it
Also in the future it would be nice to be able to import full length samples, is this a possibility?
not planned anymore. For both technical reasons & design (I'm not too interested in making it a sampler)
What are the filter improvements?
on top of the old SVF, now 2 LP, 2 HP, BP, notch, allpass, all with 5 modes. Those weren't as limited in their resonance as the SVF was.
What New FX?
reverb (same as the one in FL, with every control)
Is there ever a chance of a nice Arp in Sytrus?
not yet (although you have gates). Not a priority since it's more a host thing (which FL does well).
you get Gibbs (ringing) at the frequency where the spectrum has a steep slope.
I did notice that ringing, but I wouldn't say it sounds 'bad'. I really can't decide if it's good or bad to my ears. The non-Gibbs one sounds kinda less annoying I admit, but also less bright.

The problem is also oversampling. Let's admit that if we play a bandlimited square at 2x the samplerate, then downsample with filtering, you should get the square you're looking for, with no aliasing. Except that here the gibbs effects is still there, and I can't see any way around it. And that's exactly what happens in Sytrus (so when you switch the option on, you'd better not use oversampling)
I hope I was not too confusing
no it's quite clear but I'm still not convinced.

That gibbs phenomenon is audible, it's not aliasing, and personally I don't know if I find it unpleasant or not. Yes it's ringing, but at the same time, that's how it should be IMO.
Anyway now the user can decide.


Note: if I was doing an additive synth, I think I would remove the gibbs phenomenon, because the filtering could sweep freqs way under the hearing range. What I still can't understand is that we get that gibbs phenomenon while the harmonics stop (kinda abruptly yes) a little above the hearing range (so to me they should already have faded out to our ears - I can't understand this)
Yes I originally imagined it as an option only - I just knew that waveforms approximated with a finite number of harmonics usually have that 'additive' sound
it was not a problem to add it to the 'waveform to harmonics convertor' tool in sytrus. Problem is that I also had to add it to the:
-shape pre-filtering (the slider in the waveform controls)
-the realtime (optional) shape bandlimit

and as I wrote above, it's really a problem with oversampling :(
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