Liquid Instruments Series: your music or theirs?
- KVRian
- Topic Starter
- 1474 posts since 7 Jan, 2004
I've never considered using third party prerecorded musical phrases because to me it feels like using a small piece of music from others instead of using just a sound. It also misses flexibility.
Now Ueberschall has a the Liquid Instruments Series where prerecorded phrases are combined with Melodynes phrase editing technology to change melody and timing. A very interesting solution.
But what's your feeling about this? Is it still a matter of using someone elses musicality (in an adapted form)? Or has it become a 'depersonalized' musical instrument which musical output is completely yours?
Just curious.
Now Ueberschall has a the Liquid Instruments Series where prerecorded phrases are combined with Melodynes phrase editing technology to change melody and timing. A very interesting solution.
But what's your feeling about this? Is it still a matter of using someone elses musicality (in an adapted form)? Or has it become a 'depersonalized' musical instrument which musical output is completely yours?
Just curious.
The more I hang around at KVR the less music I make.
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- KVRAF
- 7936 posts since 18 Feb, 2003 from out there somewhere
whilst this sort of product does not appeal to me in anyway, to me this sort of thing is akin to using loops (i.e. drumloops). I don't tend to use loops but if I do, I do my best to make them my own by changing the structure, pitchshifting, adding fx etc.
I guess it really depends on how much flexibility the product allows.
I guess it really depends on how much flexibility the product allows.
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- KVRist
- 77 posts since 17 Nov, 2004
I look at it as using a session musician... without the drain on supplies of beer and ciggies.
So long as you get the result you want, what matter how you do it. (legally of course.. )
So long as you get the result you want, what matter how you do it. (legally of course.. )
Chugga says "Turn it up!!!"
For extra epointz - quote "ChuggaChugga"
For extra epointz - quote "ChuggaChugga"
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- KVRAF
- 2277 posts since 2 Dec, 2003
By utilizing the technology in the manner it claims to incorporate, I don't think this falls under just using someone else's loops. To me, it seems this technology turns loops into clay, which you can then model how you like, and in that case the end result can be just as original, unique, and personalized as if you had created the melody from scratch in the first place.
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- KVRAF
- 7936 posts since 18 Feb, 2003 from out there somewhere
so kinda like using Phatmatik or Stylus RMX on drumloops, as I suggested.JackDark wrote:By utilizing the technology in the manner it claims to incorporate, I don't think this falls under just using someone else's loops. To me, it seems this technology turns loops into clay, which you can then model how you like, and in that case the end result can be just as original, unique, and personalized as if you had created the melody from scratch in the first place.
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- Banned
- 1319 posts since 29 Jul, 2002
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- KVRist
- 114 posts since 26 Oct, 2004
I guess it depend on how you define depersonalized... e.g. if you play the piano (a real one), how much of the sound is yours... you have to use the interface and you have to stick with the sound of hammers hitting strings... and those are not made by you.Timfonie wrote:Is it still a matter of using someone elses musicality (in an adapted form)? Or has it become a 'depersonalized' musical instrument which musical output is completely yours?
The extreme example is your voice... how personalized is it... you got every building block from your parents plus the environmental influences (like language), so how personal is it really.
In a musical context I think its up to you, as long as you dont brake any copyright laws...
If I put a sample(sliced, pitched or just raw) into a song with my credits on , I want it to represent my personality, thats all Im asking for.
/ Lex Strooder
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Reverse Engineer Reverse Engineer https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=9129
- KVRAF
- 4968 posts since 23 Sep, 2003 from Glasgow
I like the idea of clay drums. Maybe one day we could have cheese drums too.
Creativity and originality is only limited/constrained by imagination, not by the tools used to express it.
Think of it this way. guitar/drums/bass, more or less the universal tools for modern music, can you see any limitation within that? i can't. 3 instruments = an infinite amount of variation. As i said, it all goes back to imagination.
Creativity and originality is only limited/constrained by imagination, not by the tools used to express it.
Think of it this way. guitar/drums/bass, more or less the universal tools for modern music, can you see any limitation within that? i can't. 3 instruments = an infinite amount of variation. As i said, it all goes back to imagination.
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- KVRian
- 1238 posts since 10 May, 2002 from Sweden
I think people are making too much of the fact that these instruments come with a set of pre-recorded phrases. Of course they could be used as they are but the whole point of these plugins is that they come with the Melodyne engine which means the pre-recorded phrases are just raw material. These are instruments, not just a set of samples.
I’m very excited about this technology. Apps like Melodyne, Rephrase and Synful represent an alternative to pure sampling and physical modelling for creating believable instrumental parts without having access to (or the ability to play) the actual instrument. You’re using the timbre and articulations of the original performance but the phrasing and melody can be shaped to your heart’s content.
Sampled notes can sound fine in isolation but string them together into a phrase and you soon realize there’s something missing. To me, the Synful solo violin demos showed this very clearly – they sound so much more alive than a sample set because the transitions between the notes are derived from actual performances.
/Yoss
I’m very excited about this technology. Apps like Melodyne, Rephrase and Synful represent an alternative to pure sampling and physical modelling for creating believable instrumental parts without having access to (or the ability to play) the actual instrument. You’re using the timbre and articulations of the original performance but the phrasing and melody can be shaped to your heart’s content.
Sampled notes can sound fine in isolation but string them together into a phrase and you soon realize there’s something missing. To me, the Synful solo violin demos showed this very clearly – they sound so much more alive than a sample set because the transitions between the notes are derived from actual performances.
/Yoss
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- KVRist
- 228 posts since 8 Mar, 2003 from Boston, MA
I think it's still 'their' stuff. Then again, i wont even use a drum loop in my work. I have a hard enough time blending a synth patch, never mind a whole loop!
Also, coming from a classical piano background, where your performance is original every time, I feel like the least I could do for "my work" - is recreate a loop using the instruments, samples, and synths that I've got. Then you'll know all of the components that go into that 'loop,' and maybe you'll change a few things along the way
Dont know, but that's just me.
Also, coming from a classical piano background, where your performance is original every time, I feel like the least I could do for "my work" - is recreate a loop using the instruments, samples, and synths that I've got. Then you'll know all of the components that go into that 'loop,' and maybe you'll change a few things along the way
Dont know, but that's just me.
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- KVRian
- 1223 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Kentucky
You still have to seperate yourself from the masses. Using pre-recorded loops and computer randomized phrases may make your music sound better, but with 10,000 other people using the same loops or programs you still need talent to get above the pack.
Robert
Robert
All I need to be happy is one more VSTi.
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- KVRAF
- 1530 posts since 20 Feb, 2003
this is stuff for non-musos and amateurs to have fun with. it's like using those painting boards with the little numbered sections.
companies love putting out this stuff because its potential market is much bigger than professional apps that require a higher level of talent to operate.
no one is ever going to get famous, be praised for originality or have a hit using canned music fodder. and would you feel honest if you did ?
and what happens when your stock of 'clip art music' runs out ? your next album would have to wait for a software update
companies love putting out this stuff because its potential market is much bigger than professional apps that require a higher level of talent to operate.
no one is ever going to get famous, be praised for originality or have a hit using canned music fodder. and would you feel honest if you did ?
and what happens when your stock of 'clip art music' runs out ? your next album would have to wait for a software update
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- KVRist
- 126 posts since 16 Apr, 2004 from Adelaide, South Australia
REAL musos just get a real sax (or whatever) and learn to deal with it. Seriously, you could pick up a second hand instrument for the price of some sample libraries - even easier for cheaper instruments - and have more power than the people who bought the massive ROMpler, the RAM to run it, and who have to spend their time laboriously programming little key clicks and breath noises and things to make a phrase sound half real.Cabinfever wrote:this is stuff for non-musos and amateurs to have fun with. it's like using those painting boards with the little numbered sections.