Sytrus demo pegs my meters

[JamminFool]

Well i think you will find that the problem is not with Sytrus, but is more likely to be with your System settings!

no offense, but i'm having a little trouble with that explanation since, as i said, i have a substantial collection of first class plugs and none exhibit this behaviour.

but hey, whatever...it certainly could be since no one else seems to have the issue.

[DavidGig]

Yes, the VSTi version of Sytrus is ridiculously hot in its output level. This was pointed out to Gol in some earlier thread, and he replied (correctly) that one can just lower the mixer setting for that channel. But it IS way out of the range of most other VSTi's. You don't need a chord, a single note of many of the default patches will clip the output at unity gain. (Different hosts can have different built-in gain structures, but I've found both Cubase and energyXT do this.)

It's not a big problem, just annoying. But Sytrus owners can pretty definitely say they've got the LOUDEST VSTi in the world .

About your crackling problem, are you just talking about garden-variety CPU overload, or are you saying you're getting driver crackles even with patches which don't use much CPU? (Patch #1, SynStr-Rich ensemble has got a x6 unison applied to 3 operators, and is a high-CPU patch, Patch #6, Bass-Depthcore uses only 2 operators and no unision, and is a low-CPU patch.)


David

[JamminFool]

But it IS way out of the range of most other VSTi's. You don't need a chord, a single note of many of the default patches will clip the output at unity gain.

thank you for confirming this. i was starting to wonder why i was the only one who noticed the hot output.

About your crackling problem, are you just talking about garden-variety CPU overload, or are you saying you're getting driver crackles even with patches which don't use much CPU? (Patch #1, SynStr-Rich ensemble has got a x6 unison applied to 3 operators, and is a high-CPU patch, Patch #6, Bass-Depthcore uses only 2 operators and no unision, and is a low-CPU patch.)


David

you are correct. it appears to be garden-variety CPU strain, as the crackling does not appear on the patch you mention. but boy, that first patch is intense. at the same time, it sounds beautiful when i increase the bufsize. really shows what this thing is capable of...

[tony tony chopper]

Your problem should be easily defined: if it stops crackling when you lower the volume, then it's because the host's default level for plugins is too loud, otherwise it's a buffer problem.


About the loudness: I made my own presets loud enough so that it usually doesn't clip when you hold a 2 or 3-notes chord. If I don't do that I'm flamed by the marketing because things aren't loud enough & people like it loud.
But my reference was FL, & not every hosts assigns the same default level to plugins. As a matter of fact, the VSTi version should be a tad louder, but still not much a problem in FL.
I know at least one other host that amps its plugins a lot & in which Sytrus is unusable unless you first mess with the mixer, it's Orion. There probably are others, but it's not a big problem anyway - it's what mixers are for.

Really if it was my decision I'd set everything's level to much lower. But then probably no one would buy it. That's what I'm being said, and it must be true considering the lots of 'FL Studio's imported samples have less *quality*' reports we get every day. People mix loudness with quality, and it'll probably never change. And it's perceptually true anyway, but ideally users should be educated about all this.. ideally..

[luCiPHer]

well, you could update sytrus with a global function that changes the default output volume, i know other plugins that do this, wusikstation for example, a few global volume settings, and you make all customers happy.
because, i can confirm that, sytrus is f**king loud, i usually reduce it's volume by 40% or so before even touching it.

[JamminFool]

Your problem should be easily defined: if it stops crackling when you lower the volume, then it's because the host's default level for plugins is too loud, otherwise it's a buffer problem.

thanks for the input.

not to beat a dead horse here, but as i have stated repeatedly, no other plugs i have exhibit these levels, so it's kinda hard to entirely blame the host. it's like shooting the messenger.

in addition, i have several hosts, and there is the same problem with sytrus (only) in most of them.

it's a comparison thing. if i only owned sytrus, then you are right, i would turn it down and move on.
but it is way hotter than all my other plugs in the same situation.

so i was wondering why? and whether anyone else cared?

i mean, it's like the whole louder-is-better trend in recording. sort of like out-shouting to win an argument.

About the loudness: I made my own presets loud enough so that it usually doesn't clip when you hold a 2 or 3-notes chord. If I don't do that I'm flamed by the marketing because things aren't loud enough & people like it loud.

like i said.

But my reference was FL, & not every hosts assigns the same default level to plugins. As a matter of fact, the VSTi version should be a tad louder, but still not much a problem in FL.
I know at least one other host that amps its plugins a lot & in which Sytrus is unusable unless you first mess with the mixer, it's Orion. There probably are others, but it's not a big problem anyway - it's what mixers are for.

i thought Sytrus was intended to be used on other hosts as well as FL.

i use energyXT and SONAR. Sytrus clips in both on most presets. It also clips in MiniHost.

after reading your comments, i tested it in Tracktion as well, and you are correct. it behaves itself in Tracktion. so clearly it is a function of the host as well.

[edit: actually, i take it back. on further testing, it''s just as loud in tracktion. ]

but i guess i would have thought it would be designed to work well across a broad spectrum of popular hosts rather than be optimized for FL. isn't there a special version of the plug for FL anyway?

and i would prefer to use my mixer to turn it up instead of being forced to turn it down to avoid unwanted distortion.

Really if it was my decision I'd set everything's level to much lower. But then probably no one would buy it.

here's a case of the opposite being true.

That's what I'm being said, and it must be true considering the lots of 'FL Studio's imported samples have less *quality*' reports we get every day. People mix loudness with quality, and it'll probably never change.

"kids" mix loudness with quality.
a good engineer knows the difference.

And it's perceptually true anyway, but ideally users should be educated about all this.. ideally..

louder is not better. it's just louder.


thanks for your input. i certainly don't want to start a flame war or anything like that though!
i appreciate your point of view and agree there needs to be some more education/discussion of this trend.

[JamminFool]

because, i can confirm that, sytrus is f**king loud, i usually reduce it's volume by 40% or so before even touching it.

aHA!

[tony tony chopper]

well, you could update sytrus with a global function that changes the default output volume, i know other plugins that do this, wusikstation for example, a few global volume settings, and you make all customers happy.

but that global setting is.. the channel's own level or the mixer level (that you say you set to 40% less). It's not like there wasn't a solution already, we're only talking about a default startup behavior here.

no other plugs i have exhibit these levels

here if I start Vanguard, Zeta+, and well.. all of the FL plugins as well, they're as loud as Sytrus is.
Rhino wasn't.. until it got updated with a 'louder' patch

Anyway I won't fight for this, as I said, if it was my own decision, everything I make would be much softer by default.

[JamminFool]

no other plugs i have exhibit these levels

here if I start Vanguard, Zeta+, and well.. all of the FL plugins as well, they're as loud as Sytrus is.
Rhino wasn't.. until it got updated with a 'louder' patch

hmmm...interesting. i own zeta+ and vanguard too. i admit that zeta+ comes the closest to the levels of sytrus, but manages to not clip in most cases. vanguard has not had the issue for me.

Anyway I won't fight for this, as I said, if it was my own decision, everything I make would be much softer by default.

understood. thanks!