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odo
KVRAF
 
3380 posts since 1 Sep, 2002

Postby odo; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:02 am

when i want to make a sid song i use a emulator (ccs64/vice) and a program called odintracker

the sound of ccs64 is better but vice is easyer :)

it`s not easy to make a song on a c64emu but the sound is more real for me than quadraSID (BTW quadraSID is the best VSTI)
why do you want to convert a .sid when you can make them even with a emu and play it with your sidplay :)
with odintracker comes a tool to make it a .sid

and maybe some day your song will be added to the The High Voltage SID Collection
thats my dream :)
Odo
Make Your Voice Heard!!
EUROPEAN VAPERS PROTEST 29th 2.00PM.It saved my life.
TechnoWeeniePas
KVRist
 
488 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Colorado

Postby TechnoWeeniePas; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:11 am

Michael, This may already be addressed (I havent looked into QuatraSid much) but as far as I understand it (and I probably dont) in a .sid file each note gets its own instrument data as well as note/pitch/whatever data...so is it/would it be possable to pull out all the instrument information from a .sid file, remove duplicates, and then convert the data into patches that could be used? Would think that by doing such you could come up with probably thousands of new instrument patches by inputng the HV SID Collection! With that many presets/patches your product would probably fly off the proverbial shelves.
"I'm not here for your cold roast chicken, I'm here for your love."
-Vanna White, Goddess of Love
Mike from reFX
KVRian
 
539 posts since 26 Feb, 2001, from Vancouver / Canada

Postby Mike from reFX; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:31 am

At the moment I am more concerned with making and keeping reFX successful. Pet projects like OctaSID don't really fit to that purpose, but I will do my best that it sees the light of day at the end of this year.

JMH, please mail me in private.
Mike from reFX
KVRian
 
539 posts since 26 Feb, 2001, from Vancouver / Canada

Postby Mike from reFX; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:37 am

TechnoWeeniePas: your understanding of C64 sound files is plain wrong. Each programmer (Rob Hubbard, Martin Galway, David Whitaker etc.) had his own instrument/patch format and then a bunch of notes with program changes etc. It's more like trackers and instead of samples they have a bunch of parameters. Now each and every programmer had it's own format that even changed from song to song, so it's virtually impossible to capture/convert them.

You taking into consideration the limited sound possiblities of the C64 you can only do so many good sounding patches before repeating yourself. Certainyl not thousands...
TechnoWeeniePas
KVRist
 
488 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Colorado

Postby TechnoWeeniePas; Wed Aug 17, 2005 9:42 am

What a mess...Its been along time since I broke out my C64 and did anything with it. I only remember looking into .sid files once years ago so Im not surprsied I was wrong about how they worked ;) Its amazing to me how those old computers handled sound. I had a spare SuperNintendo...relaized that the sound unit was physically removable and thought...hey that could be made into a synth! Then looking into it found out that it works by sending whole pre-programed files to it, not note by note, so that kind of killed that project ;) I did take an old general midi daughter card and make a hardware synth out of it though...but now I am way off topic. Thanks for the input...was wondering why no one had done it yet...was kind of thinking it was too hard/impossable to do ;)
"I'm not here for your cold roast chicken, I'm here for your love."
-Vanna White, Goddess of Love
Algorythm
KVRist
 
275 posts since 25 Sep, 2004

Postby Algorythm; Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:16 pm

Thank you all for saying your opinions in this topic, but i would like to say to Odo that i made this topic mostly to find a better soft player than Sidplay.Not for finding better ways of creating chiptunes.I thought that if a vsti sid emulation could import .sid files, then it could play them too, and as i know sid vstis have all better sound than Sidplay.So they could have been "perfect" players.The replies made me understand that an import like this, is a "pain in the ass" for someone to program it in a vsti, so ok, i go back to Sidplay :(
Maybe mr.Kleps or other programmers could help the Sidplay team by improving the sid engine??Ok, i know..these things take time, and time is money etc.I just gave an idea...So many tunes in the High Voltage Collection, and the only original way the hear them is by having a manipulated c64 or a Hardsid card :(

(Many thanks though to the developers of the Sidplay because it's valuable in it's class ) 8)
It's more fun to compute..
User avatar
odo
KVRAF
 
3380 posts since 1 Sep, 2002

Postby odo; Wed Aug 17, 2005 12:43 pm

better ways of creating chiptunes


try my unknown64 synth :) hope you like it :)

http://odosynths.panicnow.net/synths/u64s.gif
it looks good too ;)
Odo
Make Your Voice Heard!!
EUROPEAN VAPERS PROTEST 29th 2.00PM.It saved my life.
mckenic
KVRAF
 
2319 posts since 7 Jul, 2002, from Limerick, Ireland

Postby mckenic; Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:04 pm

Michael Kleps from reFX wrote:...Pet projects like OctaSID don't really fit to that purpose, but I will do my best that it sees the light of day at the end of this year.


:wink:

Well you know where to look if you need Beta Testers Sir!!!

Looking forward to using this some day!!!

All the best,
Dave

Oh and BTW odo - :love: unknown64!!!
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twolegstoneworks
KVRian
 
1374 posts since 12 Jun, 2003, from Denmark

Postby twolegstoneworks; Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:14 pm

Hey Odo, you should do a vsti based on the JCH editor, then I would be a happy man. I've been pushing Jeff (also on HVSC), who has definately made some of the most spectacular sounds on the c64, to do a vsti of his instrumentsystem, but so far i've had no luck in doing so... 8)

Oh and also Michael/ReFX is quite right in his argumentation. There were plenty of different musicroutines on the c64 - I myself tried at least 20 different systems, and I definately didn't try them all.

Cheers.
- Metal (check my dir on HVSC)
jmh
KVRian
 
1410 posts since 8 Dec, 2002

Postby jmh; Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:46 pm

Metal JCH, pfft, SDI is the way of the future, as is Jeff's new editor ;)

FWIW Some people are working on a 64 music editor that runs on PC and dumps the files to the real machine for playback... only preliminary work done so far, but the coders are waiting for us lazy musicians to provide specs for the editor :)

No VSTi though, although it might not be impossible to make it MIDI syncable...

Regards,

JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
TechnoWeeniePas
KVRist
 
488 posts since 2 Jun, 2004, from Colorado

Postby TechnoWeeniePas; Wed Aug 17, 2005 1:52 pm

Algorythm wrote:...So many tunes in the High Voltage Collection, and the only original way the hear them is by having a manipulated c64 or a Hardsid card :(


Its an expensive alternative but if you want a true sid sound (like hardsid or a real c64) then you could always look at a sidstation from Elektron as well. They are expensive but great boxes...wish I hadnt sold mine...I used to send sid files to it to play all the time.
"I'm not here for your cold roast chicken, I'm here for your love."
-Vanna White, Goddess of Love
stefancrs
KVRAF
 
4630 posts since 20 Feb, 2004, from Gothenburg, Sweden

Postby stefancrs; Wed Aug 17, 2005 10:24 pm

What about those sid tunes that weren't made in an editor? Those that just were programmed in assembler?
Didn't TBB often take that route?
Stefan H Singer
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
jmh
KVRian
 
1410 posts since 8 Dec, 2002

Postby jmh; Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:33 am

Stefan :O Wow, someone knows his sid stuff :)

And no, TBB uses our own editor, the play routine is coded by himself (I just bombarded him with feature requests) and the editor part was done by a friend of us.

But yes, there are some musicians who did their stuff in an assembler, such as this fellow named Martin Galway.

TechnoWeeniePas I didn't personally find SIDStation that amazing at all, quite the opposite. While the patch editing side was good, doing things with that small screen and a couple of buttons and knobs wasn't my cup of tea at all. However, the biggest disappointment was the sound output quality which is really overhyped and misrepresented by Elektron. Frankly they could have provided a way better quality but took the easy way out claiming it's authentic - funny that I have 64s that provide less noise. And I have a couple of modified machines with some extra functionality (second SID and individual outputs) that put SIDStation to shame in that regard. All this with a little knowledge of electronics and sacricifing none of the authenticity.

Just passed getting a used SIDStation because of the output quality. Really disappointing :( As much as I love 64 stuff, forking out that kind of money for such a lousy quality isn't my thing.

Regards,

JMH
Now available with added Inherently Suspect Justification!
stefancrs
KVRAF
 
4630 posts since 20 Feb, 2004, from Gothenburg, Sweden

Postby stefancrs; Thu Aug 18, 2005 3:50 am

Ok, but the "opium" series by DAF OUGHT to be made outside of any editor environmemt!

Love'em :)
Last edited by stefancrs on Thu Aug 18, 2005 5:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stefan H Singer
Musician, coder and co-founder of We made you look Web agency
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Ronny Pries
KVRist
 
450 posts since 20 Jun, 2002, from Hamburg

Postby Ronny Pries; Thu Aug 18, 2005 4:22 am

better ways of creating chiptunes


*cough*

sidmon maybe?

;)
aka rktic. Sound Designer at AudioRealism, Demoscener with Farbrausch & Still, Modular junkie.
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