Synth Cookbook vs Noisemaker

[danboid]

Hi KVR readers!

I decided the time has come for me to put some real effort into studying synthesis so I can plan and design patches instead of just messing about, using random or tweaking patches.

I see 'How to make a noise' is stuck to the top of this forum. I checked that out and decided its not for me because he uses 6 (!) specific, non-free and often Windows-only synths hence he leaves most Mac and all Linux users out in the cold, depending on how many of the apps have Mac ports but I'm pretty certain non are available under Linux. That is unless you run the Windows VSTs via Wine (DSSI-VST) emulation and end up with half the performance and response as a result - no thanks!

So, what would seem to be the best book for anyone like me who long fled the MS mothership would be Welsh's Synth Cookbook:

http://synthesizer-cookbook.com/

Mr Welsh takes a much more generic approach in his patches and so I should have a much better chance of re-creating his sounds with a (hopefully free and open source) Linux synth such as Noisemaker. However, thats exactly what I tried to do by trying to recreate one of the patches detailed in the freely downloadable version (see p22+) and here is a summary of the many problems I encountered:



I'm not sure how to get LFO routed 'to Amplitude'

How to (or if you can at all) set the LFO waveform type under NM?

Which dial controls the LPF envelope under NM - if it has one?

I'm not sure what the 'sync' button in the Master section of synth 1 does. Why does it list saw, rec and triangle below it but not pulse? Does it not sync pulse?

Why is pulse not listed at the bottom of the OSC 2 section but it is an option in the drop down?

If the 'sync' referred to in 1 doesn't sync OSC1 with OSC2 then how do I do that and what is it syncing exactly?


I've already tried writing to the author of NM and Mr Welsh with these questions but not had any response so I'm hoping a passing kind KVR synth wizard will take pity on me by trying to recreate one of Welsh's patches under Noisemaker and if it is possible explaining to me how its done please!

Thank you!

[Loki Fuego]

I see 'How to make a noise' is stuck to the top of this forum. I checked that out and decided its not for me because he uses 6 (!) specific, non-free and often Windows-only synths

Your problems are probably the reason why 6 specific synths were used for "How to make a noise". As soon as you start delving deeper into sound synthesis, much begins to depend upon specific synth structure.

As I see your questions are mostly related to the issues which probably can be resolved by reading manuals for the synths you use.

[danboid]

Hi Loki!

Welsh's book has been wrote in a manner that pretty much anyone with a 2 osc real or VA synth, such as Noisemaker, should be able to follow along or at least that what the author claims. I know Noisemaker is far from the worlds most powerful softsynth but it seems pretty capable to my novice eyes and ears and it seems like it should be able to handle Welsh's presets and its the best open source synth thats works as a plug-in under Linux that I'm aware of.

Yes, I'm running Linux but exactly the same synth is also available for Windows and OSX of course:

http://kunz.corrupt.ch/products/tal-noisemaker

As far as I'm aware there is no manual for Noisemaker, just a comments section on its homepage. I wrote to its author almost a week ago now with no response - hopefully he's alright!? Maybe I just asked too many questions!

If there is another book like the Cookbook that caters for Noisemaker and/or Linux users too then I'm all ears but I can't see such a tome existing just yet.

[danboid]

I've had a response from Fred Welsh now. He seems to think NM will be suitable for studying his book and recreating his patches. He's answered nearly all of my questions about NM just by looking at its screenshots bar one-

How do I change the LFO waveform type under Noisemaker? It seems to be permanently stuck on sine for me. I've tried right clicking it, click-drag, SHIFT-click, ALT-click etc etc but sine remains.

I've not tried the latest Windows or OSX builds of NM yet so maybe this is just a bug in the latest DISTRHO LV2 version of Noisemaker or even in my host? Still no response from Patrick (NM's author) but I'll update this thread as I progress with this.

[danboid]

After properly reading the comments on the NM homepage I have noticed that at least another couple of people have highlighted the bug with being unable to change the LFO waveform type under OSX so I know its not just a Linux problem now. I have just wrote to the author of NM again to let him now this is still a problem so hopefully this will be fixed in the next release.

As for the other problems I had that have been resolved, here are Fred's responses:

Which dial controls the LPF envelope under NM - if it has one?

I believe the dial they have labeled as "cont" is the amount control.


I'm not sure what the 'sync' button in the Master section of synth 1 does. Why does it list saw, rec and triangle below it but not pulse? Does it not sync pulse?

This means that it will sync the one oscillator to the other. Which one depends upon how they set it up. This simply means that one oscillator will be forced to restart whenever the other one's wavecycle restarts. This will have an effect as long as the pitch of the oscillator that has been synced is a higher pitch than the oscillator that is forcing the restart. I give a full explaination of this in the book.

Why is pulse not listed at the bottom of the OSC 2 section but it is an option in the drop down?

Notice how the pulse in OSC 1 is also accompanied by a "PW", pulse-width control knob. In OSC 2 it appears they've taken the pulse and have given it a fixed width which they're calling "Rec" for rectangle wave. I'm guessing he did this so that he could remove the PW control found in OSC 1 and replace it with the FM, frequency modulation control.

If the 'sync' referred to in 1 doesn't sync OSC1 with OSC2 then how do I do that and what is it syncing exactly?

I'm sure that's what it does, you'll just have to find out which oscillator is the master and which is the slave when synced.

As for the LFO routing question - I'm hoping for another reply from Fred to clarify which of NM's several modes I should be using to control amplitude. I think it should prob be set to Osc 1 + 2 in most cases.

[danboid]

Shortly after my previous posting I had both Noisemakers author and a member of these boards tell me the secret behind selecting Noisemaker's LFO waveform - you click-drag up and down on it - not left and right as I had tried!

I've told Patrick this isn't an obvious thing to do to a static icon and it would be more obvious if left click cycled forward and right click back through the waveforms.

Nearly there now - just waiting on Mr Welsh or someone to tell me if I'm out of luck with Noisemaker's LFO routing options or not.

[Loki Fuego]

It wasn't clear for me that you were referring to NoiseMaker.

So here's the answer to your last question: you can use LFO2 to modulate the volume. For that go to Synth 2 section and click on "Off" near amount knob.

Also, don't forget that you can use Envelope Editor to modulate volume.

[danboid]

Hi Loki!

You're right - all I had to do was use LFO2 instead of 1. My excuse is that both LFO's look identical and so I presumed they'd both have the same options in their routing menus - nope!

Thanks for pointing out that important yet slightly obscured difference - I've now located everything I need to try recreating the Synthesizer Cookbook patches under Noisemaker with your, Fred and Patrick's help!

[danboid]

I thought I was ready to tackle the cookbook using Noisemaker but I may have spoken too soon?

In 2 of the 4 example patches included in the free version of the synth cookbook, Fred uses 2x Pulse oscs each with a different pulse width. It seems that you can only adjust the pulse width of OSC1 so does that mean I won't be able to recreate such patches with NM or is there some way to work around this?

[danboid]

I DEFINITELY spoke too soon as I've also noticed now that the values for A,D and R for both the LPF and amp settings are given in seconds in Fred's book but NM goes from 0.00 to 1.00. How many seconds would be equal to 1.00 for A, D and R for both the NM LPF and amp? Hopefully its possible to convert seconds as used in the book to a percentage that will give a pretty accurate equivalent for use under noisemaker.

Sustain isn't a problem as that is given as a percentage in the book already.

[Loki Fuego]

I thought I was ready to tackle the cookbook using Noisemaker but I may have spoken too soon?

In 2 of the 4 example patches included in the free version of the synth cookbook, Fred uses 2x Pulse oscs each with a different pulse width. It seems that you can only adjust the pulse width of OSC1 so does that mean I won't be able to recreate such patches with NM or is there some way to work around this?

In this case you could somewhat approximate it by adjusting Phase of the second oscillator (also try turning Sync on and off as it will change sound).

I DEFINITELY spoke too soon as I've also noticed now that the values for A,D and R for both the LPF and amp settings are given in seconds in Fred's book but NM goes from 0.00 to 1.00. How many seconds would be equal to 1.00 for A, D and R for both the NM LPF and amp? Hopefully its possible to convert seconds as used in the book to a percentage that will give a pretty accurate equivalent for use under noisemaker.

Don't worry about exact timing. Use just approximation.
Basically I suggest something like this:
define
0-50 ms as very fast
50-150 as fast
150-500 ms medium
500 ms and beyond as long

Then when creating the sound just think in these terms: if it's very fast then it should cause quick change in sound without any perceivable transition, if it's fast then you should hear a very-very quick transition, if it's medium then you should hear a quick swell, and if it's long then the transition should be perceived like an attribute of sound (i.e. you don't really perceive it as a transition anymore).

[danboid]

Thanks for your suggestions Loki but unless I figure out or someone tells me how to calculate the nearest equivalent settings for Noisemaker I won't be bothering with attempting Fred's presets. Besides, I tried to buy a copy of his book so I could at least read his explanation of the theory behind synthesis (which is supposed to be very well written) but his book is all sold out.

When I can get hold of the book it includes a (Windows VST) VA synth which I should be able to enter Freds values into without any conversions or guess work, hear/record what the patch is supposed to sound like and then try to replicate it under NM but without that or more info off Patrick/Fred its all a bit too vague and messy for my liking.

No big deal as I realised the best way for me to learn Noisemaker is to find existing Noisemaker patches I like the sound of then recreate them from scratch - then I know I'm guaranteed to achieve a specific sound or effect.

[Loki Fuego]

Actually under Windows there're a lot of freeware, which would allow you to follow the book pretty closely. Unfortunately it's not very often that synths show you real time on envelopes in ms, but that's not really the problem.
One thing you should understand, that even using the same settings on different synths you will still be getting different sound, because each synth has its own architecture. Difference in envelope shapes (linear, concave, convex), difference in filter sounds, etc, etc, etc.

When you're studying sound design, you should focus not on replicating someone's settings, but rather on learning how different settings affect the sound.

[danboid]

I got a reply from Patrick, NM's author, today. Fred and Loki had correctly answered all my questions about NM for me already but Patrick did at least solve one unanswered question and that is wrt Noisemaker documentation - there is none save for:

http://kunz.corrupt.ch/downloads/docs/T ... Manual.pdf

Which is a tutorial for Elek7ro, the previous incarnation of what became Noisemaker.

[Nanakai]

Thanks for your suggestions Loki but unless I figure out or someone tells me how to calculate the nearest equivalent settings for Noisemaker I won't be bothering with attempting Fred's presets. Besides, I tried to buy a copy of his book so I could at least read his explanation of the theory behind synthesis (which is supposed to be very well written) but his book is all sold out.

When I can get hold of the book it includes a (Windows VST) VA synth which I should be able to enter Freds values into without any conversions or guess work, hear/record what the patch is supposed to sound like and then try to replicate it under NM but without that or more info off Patrick/Fred its all a bit too vague and messy for my liking.

The last section of Welsh's first book is titled "Calibration". I think it is the most important part of the book because it addresses your concerns. But there is no way that you're going to be able to enter in Fred's values without any "guess work" on your own because that "guess work" is what you're supposed to be learning from. All of the patches are going to sound very different on different synths, so your requirements are pretty ridiculous.

Either you enjoy playing with synths or you don't. If you don't, then buy preset packs and play with those. If you do, then try recreating Fred's patches with as many different synths as you can. If you don't know how to use your synths, then you should be reading the user manuals. If your synths don't have user manuals, get one that's well documented. Synth1 is free and documented.

"Vague" and "messy" are a part of any art. Play with it. Get your hands dirty. Who cares if your patch sounds like Fred's? What would you learn if it did?