FRENZEL FM guitar pre-amp, in the house (with first impressions)

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of course I will have some reports as to the sound tonight but I'll give a more detailed account in a day or two

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(the Boogie is on the floor)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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w00t! Glad your ordeal turned out okay. Have fun with your new toy. :)

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I see the posted note to the side of the dresser, but it's not decipherable. Is that to tell Mrs. Hink and the daughter to stay away from the man cave and not touch anything in the vicinity :hihi:

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Okay, after about an hour...first let me say this little beast is silent throughout most of my tests (some extremes nothing could be quiet :hihi: )

For these first tests I used my new esp/ltd mg350fr with EMGs

Also the speaker out does work at the same time as the pre-amp out...this is what I expected and will prove to be a KEY feature when used with the trim control on the back.

1. Alone with the 2 watt power tube running into my 4x12 in the bedroom closet with a condenser and sm 57 (standard for me)

I had to use the Weber Attenuator if I wanted to crank the master and I ran my home built tubescreamer into it through the Marshall input. With the gain about 8 it really sounded great, harmonics were jumping out at me and one of the cleanest hi-gain tones I have ever had in my life...then I noticed my NS-2 was NOT on...I brought the gain up on my ts and it got thick fast. The dark (pull) switch really makes it dark and even though it's on the fender gain control it works with both inputs (same as the bright), at hi-gain the bright switch wasn't very apparent (expected). It was very articulate and because it was so quiet it was just a blast to play.

I switched to the Fender in, huge difference and exactly what you would expect. Kicked off the ts and it was very warm, sweet....pulled out the bright and it behaved again just as expected and the dark mellowed it out.

On the Marshall side it roars (with a little help from OD pedals), the Fender side is much tamer and bluesy just as you would expect.

2. Ran the line out into the return on the Rebel so I was just using the power amp on my Rebel (plus the attenuator and it bypasses the master but not tube selection), on the Marshall side it wasn't too much different than with the Rebel's pre-amp but it was tighter than the Rebel with the tight switch on and again very quiet. It reacted very nicely with varying between the el34s and 6v6's as does the rebel itself.

On the Fender side it really reminded me of my old fender blues jr, warm, tight but very flexable...really sounded nice and warm and thick with the 6v6's.

On both the trim pot made a bigger difference in the tone than I expected.

3. Bypassed the tubescreamer and ran the line out into one channel on my Presonus Firestudio (still having my dry re-amping signal as well so I could switch between the two) and opened AT3. I had to cut back on my buffers to 128 samples which meant clicks and pops when making adjustments in AT3 (not a problem, expected), before cutting back on the buffers I could feel too much lag but after it was fine. Running it into hi-gain amps it was quite fizzy or very dark but some cabs worked better than others, I reduced the output with the trim pot and had a little better sounds. I tried it with several models but to really check out AT will take a lot more time. But when I switched to a clean tube model it sounded great and the feel was very good. (kind of moot though because to utilize it for tracking I would have to increase my buffers which would hurt the feel, no problem though because I can record the signal for re-amping or use my re-amper to use the dry signal)

Quickly back to hi-gain in AT, if I cut down on the Frenzel pre and used AT for amp sounds...well it was the best I have ever heard/felt AT and I really liked AT before this. Again, cab changes made a big difference as did mics and all that go with them. I need about a month to get through all the sounds but I found a nice warm, bluesy tone with the bi-valve.

VANDAL was pretty much the same, without going 'behind the wrench' and not using those features VANDAL felt like VANDAL with those features..I have not tried it with those features enabled yet. Again, using VANDAL clean and getting my gain from the Frenzel (all the way up to hi-gain) it was very much like it pumping through my cab...the same with AT3. I did not try GR4 or GTR3.5 yet.

Next while still running like this I open KEfir and explored impulses...wow...but I have so many impulses that it will take a while to find the best. This was one of the best itb uses I got out of it and I will be using some other impulse loaders. On all of these itb tests the fender and marshall sides were amazingly different.

4. Finally I ran the the line out into the input of the Rebel, I wasn't overwhelmed or underwhelmed...it was much more quiet than my tubescreamer and I had loads of gain. Very biting on the higher notes and the harmonics still were jumping out at me. I didn't really play it too long this way and I have more of this testing to do before I can really decide if this is the way to go. Ironically I expected this to be the way I used it the most.

I have not tried it with my aby yet (combining the fender and marshall ins) but I will be getting another aby box but probably not another Radial..I suspect I'll get an Art because it's cheap. I can really see my adding yet another signal into my soundcard from the line out and using the speaker out with the two watt output (also still sending a signal to my POD and a clean for re-amping)

All channels can be run through my emu fx before going to my DAW for monitoring with fx so in theory I could record 12 tracks at the same time (6 without any fx and 6 with, but there is no reason to record with fx especially on the dry re-amping signal (now that I think about it I could add another feed from the weber line out too :lol: )

Knowing what I know now even with about a three month wait I would wait again for this, however the added stress of little communication from Frenzel and them not really being up front about how long it would be I could have done without. If I were forced to choose between my Rebel and this Frenzel with it's two watt amp I would choose the Frenzel tbh...so much for one person's theory that the 2 watt power section would not be enough. The description says that the 2 watt power section is class A and I can tell from the tightness of the sound it is. But that does not mean I will be ditching the rebel because it kicks ass too...however for 315 usd? If you want a tube amp for recording and you want a real tube sound (not a low voltage faux tube sound like so many companies do making you think you're getting a tube sound when really the tube is just for show) then this is a no brainer...even after being frustrated over the wait and the added delay because of the broken switch I am beside myself with happiness...a true swiss army knife, it does it all very well
:D
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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metalifuxx wrote:I see the posted note to the side of the dresser, but it's not decipherable. Is that to tell Mrs. Hink and the daughter to stay away from the man cave and not touch anything in the vicinity :hihi:
well it's not a dresser, it's an antique two drawer table with a cabinet below...but no that's a list of samples by number because they dont have names. :lol:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Hello Hink,
congrats and thanks for the nice report ! :-)
Sounds like a cool toy ...

Allow me a few remarks, strictly from my own recording experience with tube preamps, take them with a grain of salt as I'm not familiar with either Frenzel or Egnater.

1. I'd expect to prefer the following routings for classic tones :
-- Frenzel > cab > mic
-- Frenzel > Egnater return > cab > mic
-- Frenzel DI > FerricTDS (does a better tube power amp emulation than almost anything else ITB, even though it's not designed for that) > cab sim
To avoid latency altogether you could monitor a real cab instead of the PC-Thru signal, that's how I mainly work atm

2. Personally I never really got along with stacking two full blown tube preamps, give me the traditional OD > tube approach any time.
This is where ymmv most ...

3. As you already have good versions of two classic tones (800 Marshall = 9000 rhythm channel, BF Fender clean = SOB with gain below ca 6 or 7) I'd be most interested in how the Frenzel compares to these

4. Options are fine but tend to be confusing like hell :P , so ime it's good to set a temporary de facto standard in certain areas while experimenting with other options, so let me recommend a nice cab :
The free Redwire 1960 cab with Greenbacks is as good as it gets atm, imho.
Their commercial BigBox collection is my go to cabsim right now, governed by AcmeBargig's fine iFace, using FerricTDS to simulate power amp feel.

5. Talking about Bootsie, stay tuned for the upcoming PreFix :love: he announced today, trust me, an incredible toolbox (not only) for us guitar freaks working with several feeds.
ETA May, you'll love it. 8)

Have fun with your new amp,
susiwong

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susiwong, as far as cleaner tones it very much reminds me of the boogie, not so much when I crank the boogie though 'all in'. Hit with the tubescreamer in front on the Marshall side of it's like the boogie was, I guess a bit like the 800 but with a ts in front and so much less noise it's a cleaner hi-gain sound...I'm really amazed at how quiet it really is even with the tubescreamer going in (without the ts you dont even hear if you're not playing)...take away that garbel and that's how it sounds.

Thanx for the advice, I'm thinking that I'll run it this way a lot

Frenzel SPKR OUT>WEBER>CAB>MICS>SOUNDCARD>MONITOR
Frenzel LINE OUT>SOUNDCARD>TRACK

and my guitar chain is

RADIAL BYPASS>SOUNDCARD>TRACK
RADIAL A>POD XT LIVE
RADIAL B>AMP (frenzel, rebel, whatever)

Now I was thinking a little while ago to blend the the 'M' and 'F' channel it might be interesting if I put the CH-1 in front of it and ran each out to one of the inputs...fender chorused/marshall not :shrug:

that's what's so awesome about tha trim control on the back, it only affects the line out and the thing really does sound killer with impules...way better than the Marshall 9000
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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sounds good to me ! :tu:

you can always go left or right for experimental stuff.

I'm regularly using my TC SCF chorus (in bypass mode) as a signal splitter between two amps, works without ground loops 8) , so yours might do that too ?

With chorusing - don't know, as it is summed to mono afterwards.
Most stomp choruses only reverse the phase by 180 degrees on the 2nd output so you might get a very weak signal. Try it out !

Cheers,
susiwong

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susiwong wrote:sounds good to me ! :tu:

you can always go left or right for experimental stuff.

I'm regularly using my TC SCF chorus (in bypass mode) as a signal splitter between two amps, works without ground loops 8) , so yours might do that too ?

With chorusing - don't know, as it is summed to mono afterwards.
Most stomp choruses only reverse the phase by 180 degrees on the 2nd output so you might get a very weak signal. Try it out !

Cheers,
susiwong
I use to use the CH-1 first as a splitter long before I had the radial aby box, then once I got the aby box I ran the chorus out of the bypass out on the radial like I do now and record from stereo at that point. Then I got the amp and for some reason stopped doing that (I think at the time a power supply issue). But hell I could even stick another mic or two on another speaker in the closet (or go all Dean on it as it were), run the egnater to one speaker and the Frenzel to the other and split them with the chorus...or not :shrug:

I'm still thinking real hard about that jet city picovalve too :hihi:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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okay, more tests and fun, but today was with my headphones (beyer dynamic dt 770's). I first ran it into my enagter as I would a pedal, then just the frenzel without even the ns-2 in front of it and finally with my ts into the frenzel.

This thing is so dynamic in how it reacts to playing and no matter where I put it in the chain it enforces that aspect. Running it into the egnater like a pedal I pushed the trim up, the master up and used the 'M' gain at about 15%. The gain was about 60%-70% on the egntaer with the master low and attenuated. Naturally you can't run something this way without noise, but it wasn't anymore than an od pedal. The clarity was great though and the sustain wasn't noisey, just picking, fingering and palm muting without touching the guitar volume I could go from soft to biting to growling and if I turned the gain up on the frenzel I would get a lot more saturation. However it can be oversaturated very easily and with less saturation it was far more dynamic.

With the ts pedal running into the frenzel 'M' channel about 90%, the master up all the way and attenuated it was very much like above but much more quiet. I could add saturation via the ts pedal, remember my pedal is modded and I have a choice between two clippers and the clippers lifted. I found I liked it best with leds, the input up about 75% and adjusting the distorion was killer...the more distortion the more saturation naturally but it was less easy to oversaturate. One thing I really noticed, playing a 'Dm' Powerchord muting my low d string (not dropped 'D' but tuned to Gm) the bass was awesome it was great on the 'E' and 'C' as well...other chords it still sounde good but it stood out on the others and the entire blend was articulate. I'm not sure I have ever played something that had this clarity while still being able get the benefits of more gain than I was using. Hamonic squeals :love:, clean and biting with a sharp edge...all over the strings all the squeals were there but they didn't compete with each other.

Plugged in without anything using the 'F' channel I ran the gain at about 40%-80% (different tests), master about 50% and attenuated. Lower gain it was very clean but if I 'hit' the chord (or a sharp back pick) it would break up so sweet, zz top blue jean blues sound. With a little more gain it didn't kill it with gain at all but if I got agressive it did too.

As I was typing above I realized that the best description of many tones is that strings and tones didn't compete with each other. The apparent gain is misleading because when I get on it hard..it screams. It will take me some getting use to when setting it up having less really being so much more :)
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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good stuff mate and i am pleased it is working so well for you :D
and indeed two pathetic little watts: What can they possibly do hey? :hihi:

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Hink wrote:
metalifuxx wrote:So that means you will have to post some samples when it arrives.
The amp is scheduled as I expected to be delivered Monday...I'll try to record some samples :tu:
Stick em up man, you are killing us now. Yeah I know clips will not put us inside the same space and at all replicate the feel of playing into the little bad boy but still i want some sonics and i know i ain't alone ;)
I know you are good on your word mind J dude. So maybe i need a little patience :P

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NEKRO.MACHINE wrote: and indeed two pathetic little watts: What can they possibly do hey? :hihi:
apparently call the police :scared:...kidding of course but I cannot crank it in here and not have my neighbor hear it. Not that he would complain, two weeks ago the kids on the first floor did something in the bathroom and at about 4:30 in the morning the pipes started shaking like there was air in them. He's above them and below me, he said he tought I was up there sawing into the wall with a sawsall...he didn't complain, he didn't even bring it up until I mentioned it and then maintenance tracked down the problem.

So I guess I could crank my amps but I wont...why on earth would I be cutting walls at 4:30 in the morning? And he still doesn't complain? :lol:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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NEKRO.MACHINE wrote:
Hink wrote:
metalifuxx wrote:So that means you will have to post some samples when it arrives.
The amp is scheduled as I expected to be delivered Monday...I'll try to record some samples :tu:
Stick em up man, you are killing us now. Yeah I know clips will not put us inside the same space and at all replicate the feel of playing into the little bad boy but still i want some sonics and i know i ain't alone ;)
I know you are good on your word mind J dude. So maybe i need a little patience :P
I'm not good at getting samples up because I forget to hit record, I'll get there but today when I thought about recording some my thought was "I have to record that, I have to record that, I have to record that, I have to record that and then I figured I would end posting so much stuff no one would listen :shrug:

Besides so far I have only used one guitar with it and one pedal, the guitar is my most mellow ax only having the EMG 81 and 85...the warmoth with the stratoblaster (and EMGs) should be very cool and the daion with an active tone and the 5 way pre-amp (artec QDD2) should be sweet...then there's the baritone with two QDD2s in it (I call it my ten pound sledge hammer now because it weighs a little over ten pounds). And there's the blues screamer pedal, and the dist+ pedal, the stereo esp with two PA-2 pre-amps etc... the list of fun goes on.

So when I can narrow it down to a few samples and not 10 zillion I'll post them :hihi:
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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I have to say that was one heck of a review.
Synapse Audio Dune 3 I'm in love

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