microsoft announces new tablet

[egbert]

Just on the comments relating to MS's earlier tablet attempts.

Every manufacturer's hardware has become more capable and appealing due to the advances in CMOS process and software. Fast lower power CPU and graphics processers and superior screens are all possible at low prices now but 5 and 10 years ago when Bill Gates first started promoting the move to tablets things were slower and heavier and a whole lot less refined. Fercrisake - the Newton was junked by Jobs at least in part because it wasn't really ready yet (and also because Steve didn't invent it and he needed to cut costs).

In the same way that the Mac was the first device which showed everyone with half a brain that a GUI was something you wanted on a personal computer, the iPad has established the pad format as a consumer desireable. Apple's marketing has launched the Pad in a way that Gates couldn't.

If you look at the market share of Android Phones which have outpaced the iPhone they are clearly inspired by, it seems likely that Pads from other manufacturers will sell at the right price - look at queues for the HP WebOS device after the price cut. Apple's stunts like locking up all the screens manufactured for its own products will only slow these competitors down, it won't prevent their rise. Not for nothing are Apple spending so much to impede the sales of Samsung's phones and Android based pads.

None of these things will run your desktop apps. That is truly the advantage of the Windows pads - like the Surface pro version. Whether the apps will cut it with a touch interface is something we will have to wait and see. The fact that the surface comes with keyboard and trackpad gets around this in the meantime.

Ultimately, the ball is in the app developers court. If MS has given them the right support, why can't Adobe and the rest offer touch friendly interfaces on their products. These could be dedicated touch versions or they could be alternative interfaces. If mature apps and their developers are too slow to make the move, I would bet newer nimbler companies will rush into the space in the market and bring competing products which will work on touch interfaces.

The leading productivity apps on DOS all failed to make the shift to the Windows GUI as fast as MS did (for obvious reasons) and they all disappeared without trace pretty quickly leaving MS Office as the productivity app set. This could be an opportunity for MS to eat some of its market parters' lunches all over again.

[polaris20]

Just on the comments relating to MS's earlier tablet attempts.

Every manufacturer's hardware has become more capable and appealing due to the advances in CMOS process and software. Fast lower power CPU and graphics processers and superior screens are all possible at low prices now but 5 and 10 years ago when Bill Gates first started promoting the move to tablets things were slower and heavier and a whole lot less refined. Fercrisake - the Newton was junked by Jobs at least in part because it wasn't really ready yet (and also because Steve didn't invent it and he needed to cut costs).

In the same way that the Mac was the first device which showed everyone with half a brain that a GUI was something you wanted on a personal computer, the iPad has established the pad format as a consumer desireable. Apple's marketing has launched the Pad in a way that Gates couldn't.

If you look at the market share of Android Phones which have outpaced the iPhone they are clearly inspired by, it seems likely that Pads from other manufacturers will sell at the right price - look at queues for the HP WebOS device after the price cut. Apple's stunts like locking up all the screens manufactured for its own products will only slow these competitors down, it won't prevent their rise. Not for nothing are Apple spending so much to impede the sales of Samsung's phones and Android based pads.

None of these things will run your desktop apps. That is truly the advantage of the Windows pads - like the Surface pro version. Whether the apps will cut it with a touch interface is something we will have to wait and see. The fact that the surface comes with keyboard and trackpad gets around this in the meantime.

Ultimately, the ball is in the app developers court. If MS has given them the right support, why can't Adobe and the rest offer touch friendly interfaces on their products. These could be dedicated touch versions or they could be alternative interfaces. If mature apps and their developers are too slow to make the move, I would bet newer nimbler companies will rush into the space in the market and bring competing products which will work on touch interfaces.

The leading productivity apps on DOS all failed to make the shift to the Windows GUI as fast as MS did (for obvious reasons) and they all disappeared without trace pretty quickly leaving MS Office as the productivity app set. This could be an opportunity for MS to eat some of its market parters' lunches all over again.

Previous MS Windows tablets didn't fail due to just hardware. Using desktop apps on a tablet sucked, and continue to. The only hope for Windows 8 tablets are if devs code for Metro, as well as tablets now being capacitive rather than resistive. The latter makes a huge difference as well.

The other significant problem (for an x86 tablet, anyway) is the battery life, heat, and noise. If they can't match an Android or iPad tablet, or at least come close to it, it's not going to go over well. A tablet isn't something people are accustomed to sitting tethered to AC power, like a desktop or laptop.

As for denting the iPad's marketshare, only Windows has a shot at that now. Android tablet sales are abysmal, with the highest marketshare in the single digits. It's been awhile now; if Android tablets were going to really start eating the iPad's lunch, they would have done so by now. People only bought the Touchpad with WebOS because it was dirt cheap, not because it was a compelling device.

This is all speculation, because no one knows what'll happen until these devices are out, tested, being used, etc. Not only am I interested in Windows 8 on a tablet, I don't really care how successful it is as long as I can continue to use what I like. I'm not interested in "killing" other devices, or what the marketshare of the devices I use is. That's bullshit internet bravado, and I simply don't care.

[tony tony chopper]

Previous MS Windows tablets didn't fail due to just hardware. Using desktop apps on a tablet sucked, and continue to.

with a pencil they don't (it's even more accurate than a mouse btw)

with multitouch yes, because of our fat fingers.

They tell about a pen included with their tablet, so.. (but it depends on the technology, I can only say that the ones using electromagnetic-whatever work perfectly, are very precise & allow right-clicking easily (as Windows heavily depends on that))

[discoDSP]

with a pencil they don't (it's even more accurate than a mouse btw)

A bluetooth 4.0 low consumption pencil that disabled multitouch once it's hold to avoid messing up when your palm is resting on the screen would be greatly welcome for any tablet device.

[SadPuppyBlues]

Why do I need to take away their software superiority? Have you used Windows 8? I have been using it for months. It's really nice, and the Metro interface is slick. Apps developed for Metro will be great on a tablet. I wouldn't say better than iOS or Android, but different.

I think it will take a lot for devs to prefer the closed-down environment. I also think Windows 8, and therefore Metro, will be too big of a market for them to ignore. They're gonna port.

If they port their software over, which they will, iApps lose their superiority.

This is all speculation, because no one knows what'll happen until these devices are out, tested, being used, etc.

I doubt these particular devices are gonna do the trick. The real test for these speculations is when the Dell and HP devices are out. Cause I mean, if the MS devices steal market, it's looking BAD for Apple when the actual hardware manufacturers have their crack.

[egbert]

@polaris
I acknowledged the advances in software in my first sentence - the software can, of course, only run on handheld devices because of the super fast processing available at ~1 watt these days and the energy density of the latest batteries. I agree with you on the importance of advances in screen hardware (capacitative and the latest AMOLED things are low power and superb - think of the crappy old monchrome LCD stuff of the 90s).

There could easily be more stumbles on the way to general acceptance of Win 8 stuff. I think the app store stuff is interesting. It has got hundreds of millions of people buying small bits of software online from a zillion vendors. I think it makes new platforms more credible to a degree - it makes the possibility of Android or some other Linux variant getting some market share on ARM or whatever more plausible because people have been prepped for buying into new platforms and accepting the fast moving software markets that have sprouted on the new platforms. The fact that there have now been 1 billion downloads of Angry Birds would have been hard to imagine let alone forsee in the old Mac/PC world prior to Win 7 and the iPhone.

Edit: - on the WebOS thing. I think there are some things to be gleaned from the whole WebOS fiasco. For a start you have to be joking if you think you are going to sell a new platform at iPad prices. Amazon have the right idea with their lowball pricing. Wealthy westerners can afford to indulge in a new iPad every year or to light cigars with hundreds if they think it is going to get them laid. There is an enormously larger market for more affordable devices - think how many mobile phones there are in the BRIC countries alone. The potential sales for a sub-200 dollar tablet are astronomical and how long before they are available at that price?

[polaris20]

Edit: - on the WebOS thing. I think there are some things to be gleaned from the whole WebOS fiasco. For a start you have to be joking if you think you are going to sell a new platform at iPad prices. Amazon have the right idea with their lowball pricing. Wealthy westerners can afford to indulge in a new iPad every year or to light cigars with hundreds if they think it is going to get them laid. There is an enormously larger market for more affordable devices - think how many mobile phones there are in the BRIC countries alone. The potential sales for a sub-200 dollar tablet are astronomical and how long before they are available at that price?

And yet the RT tablet is supposed to be $599, and the Pro even higher. So, where does that leave Windows 8? Competing directly with the iPad with the RT, and ultrabooks (and by extension, the MacBook Air) for the Surface Pro. It shall be interesting to watch.

The Windows tablets won't likely ever be $200, simply because the Windows license itself is $83. OEM's can't really pull off a cheap tablet when the OS license itself is such a huge portion of the cost. That's why you see $200 Android tablets.

[egbert]

The Windows tablets won't likely ever be $200, simply because the Windows license itself is $83. OEM's can't really pull off a cheap tablet when the OS license itself is such a huge portion of the cost. That's why you see $200 Android tablets.

Is that 83 bucks even for the RT version? It looks like MS are betting the farm on Metro - see earlier thread on Win 8 - so I think they are determined to achieve a market success and if they have to pay rebates to the big hardware people (like they presumably did to Nokia to get them on board for Windows Phone) to get an acceptable market price they will do it. The point that MS doesn't have to pay for Windows or Office is well made but to keep its partners (Asus, Dell etc) happy it will need to let them price their wares competively. With Android they have somewhere else to go. The dual platform things are interesting - dual boot devices with Win8 and Android 4 are coming in numbers from Asus etc.

[polaris20]

The Windows tablets won't likely ever be $200, simply because the Windows license itself is $83. OEM's can't really pull off a cheap tablet when the OS license itself is such a huge portion of the cost. That's why you see $200 Android tablets.

Is that 83 bucks even for the RT version? It looks like MS are betting the farm on Metro - see earlier thread on Win 8 - so I think they are determined to achieve a market success and if they have to pay rebates to the big hardware people (like they presumably did to Nokia to get them on board for Windows Phone) to get an acceptable market price they will do it. The point that MS doesn't have to pay for Windows or Office is well made but to keep its partners (Asus, Dell etc) happy it will need to let them price their wares competively. With Android they have somewhere else to go. The dual platform things are interesting - dual boot devices with Win8 and Android 4 are coming in numbers from Asus etc.

Ugh. I hate dual boot. I hated it when I had to do it daily for Linux/Windows. But to each their own.

As for the $83 figure; that's what I heard on a podcast today. But that could be just further speculation.

EDIT

Ah, here you go:

http://www.extremetech.com/computing/13 ... from-apple

[discoDSP]

I can imagine the iPad running Windows 8 ARM. Now that will be so funny.

[LoFREEQ_Recordings]

Despite past history, false-starts and marketing blunders, it seems to me that Surface is the first tablet offering that makes sense for my needs.

The iPAD is slick, but I don't need a $600 portable movie player, book reader and web-browser. I need a tablet to do all of that, plus allow me to get some work done on it. I need it to run Word and Excel, plus I need to be able to offload and back up files from my cameras when I'm out in the field. That's the iPAD's weakness, and finally Microsoft is addressing it.

I'll wait to pass final judgement until production units become available, but it looks like Surface is going to be at the top of my Christmas list this year.

[discoDSP]

The iPAD is slick, but I don't need a $600 portable movie player, book reader and web-browser. I need a tablet to do all of that, plus allow me to get some work done on it. I need it to run Word and Excel, plus I need to be able to offload and back up files from my cameras when I'm out in the field. That's the iPAD's weakness, and finally Microsoft is addressing it.

Excuse me. This MS tablet will cost around $600.

Regarding Office, I think you don't know about OnLive Desktop, Pages, Numbers, etc...

Anyways, enjoy productivity on a 10" screen.

[LoFREEQ_Recordings]

Excuse me. This MS tablet will cost around $600.

Regarding Office, I think you don't know about OnLive Desktop, Pages, Numbers, etc...

Anyways, enjoy productivity on a 10" screen.

Exactly. A $600 tablet only makes sense to me if I can not only use it as a display tool but also as an input/productivity tool. I'll pay $600 for that.

Yeah, iPAD might have Onlive Desktop, Pages, Numbers, etc., but I don't see them as being adequate alternatives.

I know what you mean about the 10" screen, but there are definitely times when smaller is better when out on the road.

[discoDSP]

Okay, then http://www.macrumors.com/2012/05/31/mic ... vember-10/

[TristezaOrange]

The Surface Pro is the first tablet I've even considered buying. iPads/Android slates? Are you kidding me?

I remember reading a piece on an Android site recently that claimed to have figured out the reason Android slates aren't doing that well. There was a variety of reasons stated (lack of apps, lack of content, lack of... stuff) but to me the answer is clear and it is this: NOBODY ACTUALLY NEEDS A FREAKING TABLET, GODDAMMIT! If iPads were being sold by any other company than Apple (we all know they hype Apple can create) they would be a huge disaster. I try to take all those people on the Internet claiming that they use their iPad all the time seriously but I just can't. I know at least 10 people that own iPads. Of those, not one uses it on a daily basis. Not a single one. All of them claimed to have used it often for the first week and then the use tapered off until it was sitting in a corner gathering dust. Anectodal evidence and all that, I know - but it can't just be my social circle. Android tablets are also incredibly useless but they don't have an apple drawing on their backplate.

Surface Pro seems destined to change that. (full) FL Studio on a decent tab? I'll take it! Kontakt and Absynth and all the stuff I'm using for music production? Yes, please. Movies on a plane too? Why, yes, that's a bonus. But please, don't give me a device with watered-down music apps that's essentially made for content consumption. I won't take that. Even if millions of people before me did.