How can I make my Vst's as "full" as hardware?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Jace-BeOS wrote:Hardware is more reliable
That's just not true. I used to have all kinds of hassles with hardware but since going to an all software set-up we have had zero problems. There is also the peace of mind that if something should happen with my laptop, we have access to at least half-a-dozen other PCs that we could get up and running in almost no time at all. With hardware, if something broke it was out of commission for weeks until it could be fixed.
no level of control mapping to generic controllers feels as ... direct(?)... as "real" hardware.
Again, I can't agree. Using a mouse gives you at least as much direct control over a well laid out softsynth and only the most basic hardware instruments will have one-to-one mapping for controls. The closest I've had in the past 25 years would be the K-Station but it still shared controls between effects, which was a complete PITA compared to the simpler ways softsynths work over multiple pages. That's why I still have a V-Station and got rid of the K Station ages ago.
And no computer configuration that includes more than an OS and one single audio device and soft synth is as reliable as hardware (let's not even talk about boot and app start time).
Of course it is - no dodgy cables, no laggy MIDI daisy-chaining or anything like that. As for start-up times, my PC boots in less than 10 seconds, whereas even the slickest hardware set-up I ever owned took me twice as long as that to switch on and power up.
kmonkey wrote:I had what is considered best plugins on todays market. Nebula, UAD, Powercore.. whatever. I never could get that sound.
A bad workman always blames his tools. I can make infinitely better sounds, in every possible way, in software than I ever could in hardware. There is simply no comparison as far as I'm concerned. Of course, half the stuff you've listed is hardware anyway and the vast majority of hardware is really just software. A few years ago I did some blind comparisons between my K Station and V Station and the only sheeple who were able to definitively pick which was which did so by hearing the noise introduced by the signal path in the hardware. i.e. They picked the hardware because it didn't sound as good.
Prototype wrote:or do you guys still believe its just all in my head and that some soft synths are really identical to those keyboards i mentioned?
Yes, I do believe it is all in your head. I have been making music orders of magnitude better in every way since moving to a full software set-up, even though I have spent less than $500 on software in the last 13 or 14 years (compared to spending up to $10,000 a year in my hardware days). Even my laptop only cost me $1300 and handles the full CPU load without breaking a sweat.
kritikon wrote:I'll second Danbroad's comments about mono. I think too many in the DAW age either forget or simply don't realise that back in the day with analogue gear everywhere, and big fat mixes and big sounds being made
When the hell was that? I can't remember a time when synths sounded anywhere near as full and lush as they do now. Listen to anything from the 70s and 80 and it sounds pathetic compared to what we can do today.
Jace-BeOS wrote:But I still hold to my assessment that I have less complexity and less (internal) unreliability with hardware vs computers with all their hundreds of competing functionalities and configurations.
That's purely down to how you choose to use things. My software studio set-up is far less complex than any hardware set-up I ever owned. Our most complex song will only have one 4x out Drumrack, a Sampler or two and 3 or 4 synths. That's maybe a dozen mixer channels, with half-a-dozen effects in total. I rarely use instruments with on-board effects and every VSTi I use is far less complex than any hardware synth worth owning. In my hardware days I'd have a dozen channels running on my Trinity, plus my sampler and one or two other synths, with two or three multi-effects units and/or on-board effects.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

My hardware has some unique characteristics. The Roland Romplers are very clean sounding to my ears and have a harder digital vibe to them. My Rm1x on the other hand, seems to have an inherent dirtiness to it that is unique. I love em both. My sh-32 and Venom synths also have unique characteristics. Haven't run into software that emulates the characteristic, but the VST's have their own unique sounds to them too. Lately I have been on using the hardware trend, but I think both are the best way to go. I'm on that mission for most parameter to be right there at your fingertips to tweak live, but sonically they can both be fit just right in a mix

I need fun controls for live tweaking.
"I am a meat popsicle"
Soundcloud Vondragonnoggin
Soundclick Wormhelmet

Post

I did some extensive shoot outs against a roland se02 and a boog from behring against monarch, massive x, and dune 3. Dune 3 was the best, i could make almost any sound sound the same in the mix using the different filters and analog envs mode. Monarch's presets kinda blow, from scratch i was able to nail just about anything the boog could do.

Repro 1 also held its own against the hardware, as well as the BX oberhousen vst. I do not beleive at all, that hardware is better by any means. I use a fireface ufx converter as well. I often found the vsts to outshine the analogs in many ways. Even resonance now.

The only problem with software now is cpu power, I have an i9 9900k, and i can run a full mix at 64 buffers, so that problem was solved. So my need for hardware vanished.

On the road though, i need a more powerful laptop, still struggling to find a solution there because buffer sizes are much higher on laptops.

Hexfix93

Post

You do have to take into account that this thread is 7 years old and things have come a long way in the software realm. I doubt those people standing up for hardware in 2012 would still think it's better in 2019.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

I've yet to find any straight guitar vsti that is as full sounding as my Les Paul.

Post

Agree'd guitars are a whole other thing. But synths. The software is really good now.

Hexfix93

Post

Ancient thread, but the point does stand that software is stronger than it's ever been. I think we're definitely in an age where the technology at least exists to make synths that sound just as rich as any hardware synthesizer. You only need to look at Diva as a reference and that was already around back in 2012. Since then, there have been many other synthesizers that have become just as rich and fat-sounding and it'll undoubtedly keep going that way. These days, the only reason I feel you'd pick up a hardware synth is because it has a character you just plain adore and can't live without/will never become a plugin for whatever reason. I doubt it'll matter all that much in a mix and, at the end of the day, it's your songwriting skills that really matter.

Post

Diva doesn't really do anything for me. I don't think it's sound stands out from any of a dozen other synths. I almost bought it when NI had the u-he half-price sale earlier in the year but I decided I'd rather pay full price for Hive than half-price for Diva. It doesn't have the versatility of the really best softsynths, either.
Googly Smythe wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:11 amI've yet to find any straight guitar vsti that is as full sounding as my Les Paul.
Your Les Paul sounds like shit unless you plug it into an amp and connect that to a speaker cabinet. I could pump ten times the harmonic content through the same set-up and it would definitely sound fuller. Possibly not musical but definitely fuller.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

BONES wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am ...
Your Les Paul sounds like shit unless you plug it into an amp and connect that to a speaker cabinet. ...
VSTi make no sound at all, unless connected to a computer which is connected to a speaker. So I think the Les Paul wins. :D

Post

BONES wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:45 am Diva doesn't really do anything for me. I don't think it's sound stands out from any of a dozen other synths. I almost bought it when NI had the u-he half-price sale earlier in the year but I decided I'd rather pay full price for Hive than half-price for Diva. It doesn't have the versatility of the really best softsynths, either.
Googly Smythe wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:11 amI've yet to find any straight guitar vsti that is as full sounding as my Les Paul.
Your Les Paul sounds like shit unless you plug it into an amp and connect that to a speaker cabinet. I could pump ten times the harmonic content through the same set-up and it would definitely sound fuller. Possibly not musical but definitely fuller.
Any guitar VSTi sounds like shit if you can't play it like a guitar. Ok, instead of a keyboard you can use a guitar-to-midi set or something like that. But if the guitar is there already, why bother... (Of course you would bother if you want to make your guitar sound like a Koto and still play it like a guitar...)
Why do people always think its only about sound? There are other aspects which are at least as important. You can get a fat sound out of anything with a good drive and huge speakers...

Post

That's why we have samplers. My guitar VSTi are all played on a guitar by a guitarist. I just choose the riffs and chords, kind of like having a session muso come in and do the part for me, except the VSTi doesn't drink my beer.

The other thing is that you're assuming everyone wants their guitar VSTi to sound like a guitar, which is not always the case. I can also make anything sound like a guitar if I run it through an amp/cab sim so I don't specifically need a guitar VSTi to do guitar parts. e.g. The "guitar" part is just one of my SynthEdit synths run through an amp-sim and it does the job well enough.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zp3ksC_aqTU
Googly Smythe wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:52 amVSTi make no sound at all, unless connected to a computer which is connected to a speaker. So I think the Les Paul wins. :D
I'm not sure I see your point. You were trying to suggest all the sound of your Les Paul comes from the guitar itself, I was simply pointing out that it doesn't. OTOH, all the power of a VSTi does come from the instrument itself which puts it at a reasonable advantage when it comes to making the densest noise. I've been going to see live rock music for more than 40 years and I've never noticed any difference between the sound of a Les Paul or a Stratocaster or a Rickenbacker. Run 'em through the same amp and cabinet and they'll end up sounding pretty much the same.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

BONES wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 11:00 pm ...
Googly Smythe wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 10:52 amVSTi make no sound at all, unless connected to a computer which is connected to a speaker. So I think the Les Paul wins. :D
I'm not sure I see your point. You were trying to suggest all the sound of your Les Paul comes from the guitar itself, I was simply pointing out that it doesn't. OTOH, all the power of a VSTi does come from the instrument itself which puts it at a reasonable advantage when it comes to making the densest noise. I've been going to see live rock music for more than 40 years and I've never noticed any difference between the sound of a Les Paul or a Stratocaster or a Rickenbacker. Run 'em through the same amp and cabinet and they'll end up sounding pretty much the same.
The point I was making is that none of the guitar sampled-based vstis that I have tried (and I haven't tried all of them) sound thin and reedy compared to my Les Paul, played through the same fx chain, (which in my case is Amplitube and the Plugin Alliance amp sims/fx), when played through my "studio" monitors. Also, they obviously don't have the same sustain qualities of any actual guitar when played at higher volumes.
I should point out that this doesn't prevent me from using Shreddage at every opportunity. Just saying it needs a little extra help.
I would also disagree with your statement that Les Pauls and Strats sound the same through the same amps. At the same settings they would sound very different. Single-coil pickups are way brighter than humbuckers and have significantly lower output.

Post

Well, the guitar VSTis I have - VG Iron, VG Carbon and Guitarist - all sound exactly like a guitar to me.

Your Les Paul v Stratocaster argument is like the analogue v digital argument in our world. It's bullshit. Nothing but personal preference. When I am standing in the audience, I don't know what settings the guitarist is using or what his signal chain is, I only know that he's playing a guitar and I am hearing guitar music come out of the PA. If his pick-ups aren't as bright, he probably turns up the treble. I'm sure there are times when you hear something and know exactly what guitar the guy is playing but mostly guitar is just guitar, it could be anything. Same with synths, 90% of sounds that people use could be made with any half-decent synth, people's preference is mostly just that - personal preference - yet they feel the need to justify their preference by trying to convince the rest of us that their choice is actually the better, in fact only, choice.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

Post

I'm with BONES on this one. Honestly I even think it's kinda getting the other way around. I've never owned a HW synth, but I've met a few. The first one was I think Moog Sub37. I clearly remember being prepared it's gonna blow my mind, because I believed that all the emulations I've tried were not as perfect as the real thing is ... and I was quite underwhelmed by the sound of it.

Also the comparison bias. HW sounds definitelly a bit different than those emulations, but is it always better? If you put the same values on a HW synth and on it's SW emulation, are you really listening to something clearly superior and inferior, or just to a different phasing characteristics and saturation-curve? I dare anyone to take a stranger, play them blind A-B test, then tell them the results wrong and watch if they're gonna protest. I think they're not going to.
Evovled into noctucat...
http://www.noctucat.com/

Post

I run them through about £10k worth of transformer balanced, class a, analogue outboard, from Chandler Ltd, Thermionic Culture, and Dangerous Music, using Crookwood conversion at 96kHz. That usually does the trick.

Diva in Divine mode through that always lives up to its namesake, when the bits finally pop out of the ATCs and reach my ear/brain/consciousness. :D
Last edited by Hermetech Mastering on Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Post Reply

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”