BassBot TT303. Anybody have and/or used?

[antto]

the x0x has the same vca-attack-click as the 303
there were people who wanted to get rid of it, so we discussed how to mod it away, and as i said - after a few weeks having my old x0x without any click - i prefered to have it back
and yes, it can make the envelope response slower if the cap value is big, that's why i started trying with big value caps (to see where it's totally bad) and went down decreasing the value
i have the mod not making the envelopes slower yet it's smooths-out the click
but i don't like it at the end of the day ;]

[Mushy Mushy]

Right, update time.

Received the replacement and ran them side by side for a few hours last night.

First thing I noticed is the presets are different. So presumably they just generate random patterns on each unit and save them down. This explains why some are completely horrendous and unusable.

Regarding the clicking, when testing last night there was a clear difference between new and old. There was no audible clicking on the new unit whereas it was still very audible on the old.

Now onto the perplexing and completely baffling bit. No matter what I do, I cannot get the clicking back on the old unit today. Maybe it just needed burning in or maybe it's a temperamental thing and will rear it's ahead again. Baffled.

Regardless the new one doesn't do it and I'm a satisfied user now.

Oh and massive props to Superior Sounds. Superb customer service. Hugely recommended.

[mztk]

working on a synthedit project - i was interpreting what i was reading
on the Open303 thread that antto mainly hosted throughout - i tried
reducing a gate click with a -6dB/oct LP filter, across the gate trig line,
and it works, but it affects the attack. so that's a universal thing: soften
the gate and lose your attack.

[nix808]

In an SE Acid VA,
the option to not have a click on env attack
can be realised by not having a free running osc.
Then you will not sacrifice attack time.
It's kinda like sync.
The osc waveform will start at 0,
so it's not in the env per se.
Hope helps

[antto]

you can't have a fast attack and yet no click
fast attack means to bring the volume up sharply, and that creates transients, which sound like clicks/pops

mztk: actually, you don't filter the gate
in the circuit, the gate creates a short "retrigger" impulse (it's like ~1ms long iirc)
this impulse charges up the MEG (but not quite enough) and the VEG
charging the VEG happens in a weird way, the curve looks like x^2
so, you can apply a LPF on the VEG with a cutoff about 120Hz or more
lower cutoff would remove the click but also make the volume envelope smoother (slower)
higher cutoff would not filter out the click
so, you want to use the highest possible cutoff which manages to get rid of the clicking
(i got this in mod in my x0xb0x, it works)

nix808: that would sound weird, and it won't work on the real thing
even if you manage to reset the oscillator on a NoteON - the waveform doesn really begin at 0
the sawtooth starts at around 11V and ramps down to 5-ish volts (don't take these numbers too seriously)
the square starts at 5.33V and stays there flat for the first "half" of the cycle, then goes up and down in a weird way

even if you got some way to reset the oscillator to what happens to be equivalent to zero - you got yet another problem - the filter
the moment a NoteON happens, you'll reset the osc, open the VCA, but the filter has memory, and it's current output at that moment might not be zero yet (even if the input is zero) ... this will be especially true at low cutoffs
so you'll still get a click, from the filter

[Sendy]

Wow, antto knows his stuff. You should have been working for Roland when they were making their 303 clone.

[nix808]

hmm,
I can't comment on analog oscillators,
it's very interesting though.
I want to learn this stuff.

The comment was on VA,
it may sound weird on an analog 303 circuit,
but in digital domain,
it is just fast attack with no click.

Yeah, LP's are like de-zippers for sure

edit- the clone should have been a 1:1 reproduction IMO.
I'm more interested in the BassBot. I wanna 2 of these badbassboys

[Sendy]

I am ordered a Bassbot from myself. Should be here on midweek. If I don't like, it I send back. I make acid long time.

Will post some audio for comparison when it arrives.

[mztk]

Wow, antto knows his stuff. You should have been working for Roland when they were making their 303 clone.

yeah it's obvious they should offer him a job!
and once again i commend all to read that thread some time.

antto/nix808: i'm talking about what i tried in SE, of course, i haven't messed
with my x0x at all, just about got sokkos on there (using antto's excellent app,
thanks for that, it is very cool, much better than the original contr0l thing).

i left out the gate line filter in the end though: it was about pulling down the
cutoff, a bit like a shaper, i guess. anyway, it wasn't a desirable result.

i was quite under-awed by my x0x, tbh, with the original OS on it: for example, the
random never gave anything authentic sounding in terms of sequence, - but more
importantly, although it does have the character of 303 next to other machines,
there is something missing. i ought to open it up and punk it up a bit ( i could
actually handle having a xoxio instead, for the extra places it can go )
- and well, these bassbots do seem to have a pretty nice squelch to them that
isn't on (my) x0x .

Mushy, friend of mine went through a couple, and then superior sounds said come in
and pick one, so that is what he did.. now that is top service!!! deluxe! he got one
of the 2nds(minor scuff around pot), i think, got a good price; the fact that some people
are selling their x0xes in favour of Bassbot seems indicative...oh ****, another clone? they
said the last one was IT...

[antto]

/* sorry for the offtopic */ the randomizer in the stock firmware of the x0x is very lousy, 8bit, terrible, it generates a sequence of 256 numbers or so, the same sequence, always ;]

[mztk]

yeh that about makes sense. the randomizer on your beta2, where you can de/select
the various step parameters is a very creative tool - what a shame you didn't put MIDI
out on that one!! would be great with any clone.

re: BassBot factory presets: are these overwriteable?/user? or is there a bank of
hard presets each ships with? apparently each one has its own unique bank. can
these be regenerated, eg: to offer a new set of preset patterns?

so what happens without Tap? you enter note stack, and then? steps and rests?
bcs with 303/202, you (can) enter the series of notes, then tap in the timing.
not essential but quick if you're good at it.

[Sendy]

Just as an aside, the Acid Voice website lists the zocksbocks as the best 303 clone, followed by the AIRA TB-3. To be honest, the AIRA sounds a bit plasticky and flat to me. Placebo effect? Matter of taste? Or have Acid Voice got it wrong?

Where the AIRA seems to fall short is in those phasey distorted resonance artifacts that give the 303 sound so much punch. It's hard to explain, but it sounds to me like the phase response of the 303 filter really heavily artifacts the waveform, and it sounds great. The digital emulation (and softsynths, to a lesser extent) seem to miss that.

[antto]

nah, the TB-3 got the filter right (at least i didn't spot anything wrong with it) and the square too (at least good enough)
what they failed at, soundwise, is the envelopes, specifically the accent

on the real thing, the cutoff envelope doesn't quite charge up 100% on NoteON but more like 95% ... this is a tiny detail at first sight, and it's very easy to overlook on a digital clone..
for any other synth such detail will make nearly zero difference, but the 303 is special - one of the key things it does is that it separates the decay between normal and accented notes
so as a result - you got notes with long (actually user-adjustable decay) and short (fixed) decay time
and after the envelope has decayed down significantly (which happens on accented notes) - this 95% recharging really becomes much more significant than you'd think
but that's still something small, the accent behaviour is more important, it's critical, everyone knows that, so slapping such a lousy model which doesn't even properly reproduce the envelope curve of even a single static accented note is a big fail IMO

and, the lack of knobs doesn't make things better..

EDIT: oh, and i also don't agree with how they list TB-3 in there
everyone has an opinion about 303 clones, these opinions differe quite a lot
if i have to tell what my list looks like:
1. x0x
2. x0x-heart
3. ML-303
4. acidlab bassline
5. bassbot
6. <put something here>
7. TB-3

it's sad, but if they just did a proper accent model, and include all 6 "tone control" knobs plus the waveform switch as in the original - the TB-3 was gonna be on #4 or even #3 at least in my list

[Mushy Mushy]

I want another one now.
One cannot simply own a single 303.

I have an awesome pattern going, but now I need a bassline to go with it.

Granted I could record/sample it, but where's the fun in that

[Sendy]

I'd go with multitracking it myself, unless you have four hands or a well-trusted friend to help tweak those knobs. Personally I don't know if I trust any of my friends enough to entrust them with the responsibility of turning the right knob at the right time

Did you not get the Volca Bass? I'm interested to hear that layered. I also have a Minibrute, can't wait to try running the TT through it's highpass filter