New Roland "DANCE" hardware- AIRA TR-8, TB-3, VT-3, SYSTEM-1

[ghettosynth]

I started this by asking WHO, specifically, is going to use this and for what kind of music? You don't know the answer to that question, so stop repeating yourself with the same non-answers. To you, it's everyone who's never owned an 808/909 and doesn't know any better. Fine, but that's not interesting and it isn't an answer.

The answer is very simple, like it's been provided many times now. Who? People. Normal everyday people who are more concerned about making music, than fulfiling your brief to make some imagined NEW music.

So we've got your answer, yes? So, I'm going to continue to talk about what I think is interesting with those folks here on KVR who understand EDM just little bit better than you do. I'd appreciate if you'd go find someone to talk to that's on your wavelength.

[zerocrossing]

Very good points. I think this is why I've always been somewhat interested in "playing the drum machine" as an instrument and yet mostly avoided it. I even once did a DJ set where I used Live and loops (that I made myself) synced to a drum machine and... I didn't find it that fun and I think it translated to the audience. Of course at that time there was no such thing as the Maschine or Spark and that could have helped.

I've long decided to not gig, but if I did there's no doubt in my mind I'd bring a laptop, midi controller, guitar not much else. Aside from the guitar it would all fit in a back pack and I'd have near complete confidence in it. If I failed to do a good performance it would be my fault, not the laptop's.

I agree. To be clear, when I first started playing out live as a solo electronic act I thought that it mattered more. My first drum machines didn't have controls and when I had an opportunity to pick up a 909 I too thought that it would make a big difference because of all that control. Ultimately, it didn't.

Oh, I've been preprogramming my drum tracks for live events for years. Supplementing them with some percussion from a Handsonic (Hi Roland, cool box!) but for the most part the entire drum track was on rails and from that foundation I built (all improvised) the rest of the song (using an audio looper to keep things going)... but that rest of song involved bass guitar, guitar, keyboards and various other gizmos. In the end I was very busy so I don't think anyone ever thought, "Oh, it's all just preprogrammed."

Truth is, I've seen people do the live drum machine/groovebox/etc show many times and the only time I find it interesting to watch is if it's filmed well on youtube or they put a bunch of live cameras on the rig and projected it. I saw Thomas Dolby once and he had a POV cam... that was a clunker though as it was too all over the place. Anyway, without a way to see what the performer is really doing a show like that might as well be done from a laptop... or just pre sequenced or even just an audio file playback.

Here's an example of my own "FAIL." Once I used to use a MIDI guitar to trigger sounds and video clips (with a program called ARKAOS) it worked well... but when I was asking the audience about the video they all thought it was good, but had no idea my tiny finger movements were controlling it. I then did a show where I had a MIDI track from my sequencer control the video and I could find no person who could tell the difference... or care. Anyway, that's my take on things. If the audience can't really see what you're doing, then what's the performance about anyway?

I'm getting OT though, but I think if anyone's about getting a TR-8 or really any similar device, they'd better have some money left over for a few cameras and video projection systems.

[zerocrossing]

This discussion is starting to get a little trouser action going here. The only other person I ever met who was so determined to have the last word…..well….I ended up married to her

I have to say, as much as I agree with gettosynth, I don't quite understand the venom. I guess I can see both sides. I've watched and enjoyed Aira demos where they get the whole set of them going together, and I can see the appeal. I think they look cool, sound good and have a number of useful features that make them more than the sum of their bits when used together.

I'm sure that my criticism of them stems from being disappointed that Roland started going down the right(ish) path and then just sort of stopped half way. If they were totally off I wouldn't even bother posting. It just looked like they were about to be dead on target (IMO) and they didn't just miss the mark... it just sort of stopped 75% of the way there. In a weird way it's much worse. Like a super attractive woman letting you get naked in her bed and then having her tell you she just wants to cuddle and go to sleep. If she hadn't been attractive in the first place you wouldn't be mad if she wasn't interested.

I hope the next version of Aira f*cks me.

[damoog]

I hope the next version of Aira f*cks me.

Wierd post of the day

[ghettosynth]

This discussion is starting to get a little trouser action going here. The only other person I ever met who was so determined to have the last word…..well….I ended up married to her

I have to say, as much as I agree with gettosynth, I don't quite understand the venom.

I think a lot of what you're perceiving as "venom" is just my frustration with other posters who give halfass answers without actually thinking about the question as it is.

[damoog]

[/quoteIt will, I predict that it will come from Korg when they take advantage of the opening by Aria.[/quote]

What opening?...I mean what actually did roland do wrong with the TR8,everything makes sense to me on this unit?

[himalaya]

It's YOUR claim that there's a "new generation" of musicians demanding 808/909 sounds in a new drum machine.

Seriously dude, for the umpteenth time, do not attribute words or ideas that I did not state. I've asked you already. Provide a quote where I say that these musicians "DEMAND" the 808/909 sounds? Again, it's not about demanding the sounds, but using what people get inspired by. Can you comprehend the difference?

I think that the only people who will use it are people, like those you've posted, largely stuck in the past.

So? Let them be, even if most of them are not stuck in the past. Let people express themselves in any way they see fit. This is the purpose of music, to express yourself. If some want a touch of the 1985 in their dance music, so be it. If they want a touch of 1999, so be it. If they want to use the TR909 as a totally live jam machine, like here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvV35rdBwiU

so be it. By the way, how is it possible that this guy is using a TR909 totally live, like you have bombastically stated is not the done thing any more? Some humility, my friend would do you a lot of good.

No disrespect to Jeff Mills or Tommaso Marasma intended, neither of whom are using a TR8.

Of course not. You wanted me to provide, examples of people using the 808/909 in a live set and that's what those videos show. When you get such examples, you shift the goal posts (yet again).

[himalaya]

It just looked like they were about to be dead on target (IMO) and they didn't just miss the mark... it just sort of stopped 75% of the way there.

is how I'd put it too.

Like I've mentioned it before, the 'evolved' part of the TR8 spec looks poor and conservative. Much better things could've been done. Still, those looking for a hardware solution to 808/909 sounds and control of them, have an inexpensive option now.

[pdxindy]

Again, it's not about demanding the sounds, but using what people get inspired by.

I'm barely in touch with what is popular and who is doing what. But my impression is that ghettosynth is essentially correct in his assessment. Roland is cashing in on the past. If 10,000 people run out and get a TR-8 within the first week, that by itself says nothing except Roland did a good job of selling the idea. That does not mean that those people will be happy with their purchase 6 months down the road or that the TR-8 will be used by anyone 5 years from now.

[ghettosynth]

It will, I predict that it will come from Korg when they take advantage of the opening by Aria.

What opening?...I mean what actually did roland do wrong with the TR8,everything makes sense to me on this unit?

That they warmed up the market expecting to receive a clone of past successes and then delivered a half-baked solution.

[ghettosynth]

Again, it's not about demanding the sounds, but using what people get inspired by.

I'm barely in touch with what is popular and who is doing what. But my impression is that ghettosynth is essentially correct in his assessment. Roland is cashing in on the past. If 10,000 people run out and get a TR-8 within the first week, that by itself says nothing except Roland did a good job of selling the idea. That does not mean that those people will be happy with their purchase 6 months down the road or that the TR-8 will be used by anyone 5 years from now.

Exactly.

[pdxindy]

Like I've mentioned it before, the 'eveloved' part of the TR8 spec looks poor and conservative. Much better things could've been done. Still, those looking for a hardware solution to 808/909 sounds and control of them, have an inexpensive option now.

Forget evolved... they haven't finished the initial emulation yet... the lack of individual outs is a huge thing... no possibility for post processing individual sounds. That means that the TR-8 does not come close to what you can do with the originals. That is a lot of creative potential lost.

[himalaya]

Again, it's not about demanding the sounds, but using what people get inspired by.

I'm barely in touch with what is popular and who is doing what. But my impression is that ghettosynth is essentially correct in his assessment. Roland is cashing in on the past. If 10,000 people run out and get a TR-8 within the first week, that by itself says nothing except Roland did a good job of selling the idea. That does not mean that those people will be happy with their purchase 6 months down the road or that the TR-8 will be used by anyone 5 years from now.

Well, but hold on first, what you've quoted and your subsequent post have no relation, since I'm answering to ghettosynth's continuous and false statement that it is ME who is claiming that people demand these sounds. This is an untruth which ghettosynth is hell bent on propagating.

As to the larger content of your post, that of Roland cashing in, it's immaterial. Like I've said pages ago, Roland is not a charitable institution and they need to make products that will sell. Is this product perfect? No it isn't. Does it contain immediately usable sounds and control over them? Yes it does. Do people still groove with these sounds? Yes they do. The videos I posted show that clearly, and as much as ghettosynth would like to denigrate these musicians, and come out with some elitist attitude of what should be used in today's EDM (who cares!) as much these same people will just continue to make music.

[himalaya]

Like I've mentioned it before, the 'eveloved' part of the TR8 spec looks poor and conservative. Much better things could've been done. Still, those looking for a hardware solution to 808/909 sounds and control of them, have an inexpensive option now.

Forget evolved... they haven't finished the initial emulation yet... the lack of individual outs is a huge thing... no possibility for post processing individual sounds. That means that the TR-8 does not come close to what you can do with the originals.

True. This is what I've already written pages ago. We are in agreement here, but if you had read my posts you'd know this.

[ghettosynth]

Like I've mentioned it before, the 'eveloved' part of the TR8 spec looks poor and conservative. Much better things could've been done. Still, those looking for a hardware solution to 808/909 sounds and control of them, have an inexpensive option now.

Forget evolved... they haven't finished the initial emulation yet... the lack of individual outs is a huge thing... no possibility for post processing individual sounds. That means that the TR-8 does not come close to what you can do with the originals. That is a lot of creative potential lost.

The accent thing is huge, it's a big part of the character of the original and what gives groove to hat patterns.