New Roland "DANCE" hardware- AIRA TR-8, TB-3, VT-3, SYSTEM-1

[fmr]

true enough, they could have done that- and then no-one would ever have used fixed
velocity! the alpha juno 1 has fixed velocity, and it is a good thing. it is useful to have
a fixed velocity MIDI keyboard. you don't get the same results playing a vel'sens' keyboard
-so hopefully it has a chord memory somewhere.

My point is always: What does more, does less.

You can't use velocity in a keyboard with no velocity, but you can, as others pointed NOT use velocity in a keyboard that has it. Leaving options out is always bad from a customer POV. An unjustified, IMO.

[idfpower]

why did they just wave it around and not play any of the sounds? all these guys
yapping about specs endlessly instead of playing the sounds.

They said why in the video: the demo unit got damaged while preparing the booth for the show so it's just flashing pretty lights, but it's broken...

But IMO they've rushed the "release" so they won't miss the opportunity to unveil it at he show (same as Waldorf) and as a result the unit is prolly a prototype still a bit glitchy (otherwise why would you bring just 1 unit for the show?)...

[ghettosynth]

In fairness, it's reasonable to exclude velocity for a vintage synth "clone." Very few, if any, monosynths had velocity sensitive keyboards. I think that the main reason they excluded it, however, is to have a very inexpensive and simple keyboard. The keyboard was commented on in the review above where the Roland rep claims that it helps to keep the device thin. One could also argue that for DJs, velocity sensitivity is actually a hindrance. If you don't really know how to play, at least a little bit, you might find the variation in sound that you'd get from bad technique unacceptable.

Pretty lame argumentation: on one hand Roland wants to move forward in time with their technology then why go back in time in excluding velocity?

No, it's a reasonable argument as to why they left out velocity.

[SunWind]

I gave potential reasons why they did not include it. Your job isn't to refute my reasons, it's to come up with better reasons, because, a-priori, we know that it does not have velocity sensitivity so there MUST be SOME reason. Moreover, that reason must be rational from their point of view.

To cut it short: your whole argumentation is simply ridiculous at the given pricetag of 599 bucks

[dcfac73]

Just got back to this thread after a while...wtf happened?

Just to change the course a little....The products they're offering seem a little underwhelming after all the hype and buildup. Of course I don't know what I expected for the price of these units, but...for eg re: the TR-8- I already own the Arturia Spark, which offers the same functionality, and a whole lot more. I guess the only selling point for me on this unit would be the sound quality, which I don't think would be that much different to the 808 and 909 models on the Spark. If anyone could make a direct comparison, I'd be most interested in what they find. Otherwise the functionality of the TR-8 and the TB-3 seem quite limited. The System-1 looks a little more interesting because of it's future expandibilty. If only they could have added this feature to the drum and bass modules. Apparently you can't even edit the sounds on the TB.

[Kriminal]

You have no idea what Roland's costs are or how they came to this feature set so your argument that other products have those features is specious. This synth has no menus, hence, any additional features require actual knobs and/or switches which cost money.

it does have a SW editor tho, so even a simple On/Off softswitch would be possible for pennies.

[ghettosynth]

I gave potential reasons why they did not include it. Your job isn't to refute my reasons, it's to come up with better reasons, because, a-priori, we know that it does not have velocity sensitivity so there MUST be SOME reason. Moreover, that reason must be rational from their point of view.

To cut it short: your whole argumentation is simply ridiculous at the given pricetag of 599 bucks

You can be critical of Roland's price point or profit margin but that isn't the same thing as answering the question of why they didn't include velocity.

[ghettosynth]

You have no idea what Roland's costs are or how they came to this feature set so your argument that other products have those features is specious. This synth has no menus, hence, any additional features require actual knobs and/or switches which cost money.

it does have a SW editor tho, so even a simple On/Off softswitch would be possible for pennies.

It's not pennies, it's tens of pennies, or even more depending on where you are going to put that switch, and bean counters count those pennies.

[MFXxx]

Just got back to this thread after a while...wtf happened?

Just to change the course a little....The products they're offering seem a little underwhelming after all the hype and buildup. ...

lol bit like sex then...it's either doesn't match up to what the individual needs or demo the units and spend some time playing, feeling and exploring. Then you can progress beyond the fantasy and into the real world PS Not aimed at you dcfac73 more your words being the catalyst for my post.

So my thoughts and fantasies for what they are worth

Despite digital the tr8 has got me thinking drum machine, but I have Maschine...however I'm getting the bug. Tempest, wait for and demo The Wolf and demo the TR8 and assess it's work flow, playability and fun factor. I said it in an earlier post somewhere...for a small price they really could have integrated sampling even if it was just 30 secs or so, or even 16-20 secs allowing 2 seconds per slot. Heck 8 seconds even (for which they would have been heavily criticsed).

The TB3 has got me onto xoxbox (something I've been mulling over for a while) and Im still thinking it be good fun to have a TB3 as well as, not a lot of money but then I could opt for a Dark Energy 2 for another £100 and start venturing modular

System 1 concerns me on support. For the plugouts and coding required will 3rd parties be able to develop or is it purely in house. In house means no good once it goes discontinued. Open soure - well that could be interesting...Urs But I'm waiting to demo Elektrons Analog Keys so ... I'm out :•)

However nowadays with the lack of after-touch and velocity why not release a module and reduce the price minus keyboard. Actually could have been smart. If it's just for triggering sounds why have the key-bed as keys. Why not simply trigger buttons (see the latest Akai Wolf to understand what I mean).

VT3 - less said the better no

[sl1914]

To cut it short: your whole argumentation is simply ridiculous at the given pricetag of 599 bucks

Nord Lead a1 should cost 1799$ and it doesn't have after touch either.

[fmr]

To cut it short: your whole argumentation is simply ridiculous at the given pricetag of 599 bucks

Nord Lead a1 should cost 1799$ and it doesn't have after touch either.

We are talking about velocity not aftertouch.

[fmr]

3) The "vintage clone" market segment may care, but may not see it as a feature because the synths that they are emulating did not have velocity. Here Roland may believe that adding the feature may actually hurt sales. If you don't get this then you don't have much familiarity with this market segment. People argue whether or not the blue or the red sh101s sound better for christ's sake. A velocity sensitive keyboard on an SH101 clone may kill a huge chunk of the potential market.

This point is the biggest fail in your argumentation, IMO, because System-1 isn't "cloning" anything. Actually, it is a simple VA, with limited polyphony, and on what Roland promised to make run "plug-outs" that will emulate vintage classics. The SH-101 will be (when available - right now it's just "talkware") the first plug-out, but it's an "option" that will run in the System-1. And, again, what does more, does less.

[SunWind]

Again, THERE IS A REASON, if you can't think of one that makes sense to you, that's because you aren't trying hard enough, not because Roland doesn't know how to sell products. There isn't a dev on here who sells as much as Roland does, so, arguably, none of you know as much as Roland does about selling products.

I can tell you this I'm in this business for over 30 years and got quite some insight into production costs etc. too. So I'm not simply talking from a consumers point of view. And I know when reps from companies drop their marketing mumbo jumbo - don't get fooled by this.

[MFXxx]

I can tell you this I'm in this business for over 30 years and got quite some insight into production costs etc. too. So I'm not simply talking from a consumers point of view. And I know when reps from companies drop their marketing mumbo jumbo - don't get fooled by this.

This is where I see it's a dangerous game in the retail industry nowadays for consumers. Strong marketing and hype, fewer people seeing their product in real life, reading forums, reviews, threads, watching you tube and pressing click on the mouse with their plastic wallet beside them, waiting for the brown box to arrive and hoping the contents matches up to their now overinflated mental expectation.

Went to my local store recently couldn't see a moog, elektron anywhere as for anything modular or fringe worthy well that's a pipe dream - roland, korg, yamaha no problem. All the big players in the store.

I know these are going to sell in their 1000's. Strong marketing, established brands and pocket money prices, per say.

[ghettosynth]

3) The "vintage clone" market segment may care, but may not see it as a feature because the synths that they are emulating did not have velocity. Here Roland may believe that adding the feature may actually hurt sales. If you don't get this then you don't have much familiarity with this market segment. People argue whether or not the blue or the red sh101s sound better for christ's sake. A velocity sensitive keyboard on an SH101 clone may kill a huge chunk of the potential market.

This point is the biggest fail in your argumentation, IMO, because System-1 isn't "cloning" anything. Actually, it is a simple VA, with limited polyphony, and on what Roland promised to make run "plug-outs" that will emulate vintage classics. The SH-101 will be (when available - right now it's just "talkware") the first plug-out, but it's an "option" that will run in the System-1. And, again, what does more, does less.

Seriously? The fact that they want to release "plugouts" of vintage synths and that they call it the "System" whatever synthesizer tells you that they are trying to capture the nostalgia of the System series of analog synths.