New Roland "DANCE" hardware- AIRA TR-8, TB-3, VT-3, SYSTEM-1

[ghettosynth]

...<snip 'inane wall of text">

you're wasting your god damn life here.

You owe me an irony meter.

[ZenPunkHippy]

the irony was not lost on me

though if you agree I wasted my time with the thought & keystrokes required for that post, I'd love to hear your honest opinion about captain neckbeard's use of his spare time here

Everyone is wasting time here, no?

There are valid points on both sides, but I'm tending towards this being a cut down version of something that would have cost more but been more useful. Like the Analog Rytm ... now that is AFAICT a properly specced and implemented analogue drum machine for the year 2014. Price is not very friendly, though.

I doubt you have the courage for that kind of honesty

Ah right, so you're trolling ...

[ghettosynth]

Does anyone make music anymore? Or is bitching the new art form? At least it's not Gearslutz I suppose.

This is a music technology site about plugins, why would you expect the primary topic of conversation to be music? Indeed, why would you even expect a positive outlook on OTB hardware at a primarily ITB site? The opposite is certainly true on Gearslutz where people worship hardware for its own sake.

[ChiTown24]

I doubt you have the courage for that kind of honesty

Ah right, so you're trolling ...

Not at all... it was an astute observation, as vindicated by this mealy-mouthed platitude offered in response to a genuine question asked in earnest:

the irony was not lost on me

though if you agree I wasted my time with the thought & keystrokes required for that post, I'd love to hear your honest opinion about captain neckbeard's use of his spare time here

Everyone is wasting time here, no?

anyway, since you raise the issue, you have a history of lacking courage when it comes to honesty - which is why it was easy for me to predict your response. history repeating itself etc. I refer to your opinions on the DSI Tempest's build quality. you made allusions to it's build quality in public - in an elektron rytm thread {the one I started perhaps}, but would not substantiate as to what you were alluding to in public. You PM'd me your honest thoughts, and the reason why you were lacking the courage to make them public. I still got the PMs. Should I share them ?

There are valid points on both sides

exactly the kind of non-committal professional diplomacy you should stick to if you want to maintain the moral high ground. if you wade into the mud with the rest of us, don't be surprised if you find yourself in a difficult position, diplomatically speaking - suggesting I'm 'trolling' you by knowing you wouldn't give an honest opinion on ghettosynth's participation here is a complete cop out.

[ZenPunkHippy]

and the reason why you were lacking the courage to make them public. I still got the PMs. Should I share them ?

No you should not share my PMs in public.

I explained exactly why I don't post in public ragging on other manufactures gear. There is a conflict of interest.

Like if I worked for Yamaha and started posting that Roland produces junk. It's not professional to do that, and yes Camel Audio can in some ways be seen as a competitor to Roland.

As for having the courage blah blah.

Yeah, I'm the one calling out "neck beard" and generally insulting people, threatening to post PMs in public. NOT

[ChiTown24]

and the reason why you were lacking the courage to make them public. I still got the PMs. Should I share them ?

No you should not share my PMs in public.

I explained exactly why I don't post in public ragging on other manufactures gear. There is a conflict of interest.

lol. hold up. you DID rag on other manufacturers gear. the only thing you didn't do was substantiate your claims/allusions in any kind of detail - when asked to do so repeatedly, allowing people to infer the worst. Which is SO much more diplomatic - right ? give me a break. besides, your 'real' gripes, which were based on fears as opposed to actual experiences - if you had the courage to state them publicly - would do much less 'damage' to DSI then your unsubstantiated allusions which, as I said, only allow people to infer the worst. much worse than your actual experience. as documented by said PMs. Don't let me stop you from patting yourself on the back for your 'professionalism' though.

Yeah, I'm the one calling out "neck beard" and generally insulting people, threatening to post PMs in public. NOT

please. I have no idea what he looks like, or anyone else for that matter. neckbeard is a meme, and one of those colloquial internet terms for someone who is obsessive about something... and missing the bigger picture - which I think is a fair assessment of his crusade here, one that is shared by several people in this thread. the rest of the 'insults' you refer to are, I think, reasonable speculations as to what's going on in ghettosynth's life {or not going on, as the case may be} that he needs to take part in this kind of deceitful trolling crusade online to validate his ego... to the point he has to engage in dictator style revisionism deleting massive posts to allow himself more scope for trolling. You think that's reasonable behaviour ? and I'm the troll ? OK buddy. if you say so. I think you're just butthurt for being called out on your {professional} cowardice when it comes to honesty. Not saying you're duplicitous or anything, but you sure do like to have your cake and eat it too {which is a phrase... not a dig at your weight should you have weight issues.} As far as 'threatening' to post PMs in public ... you've gone from lacking intellectual honesty, to being pro-actively intellectually dishonest. Smooth move!

[ZenPunkHippy]

I no longer have any f**king idea what you're talking about.

Good luck in your endeavours, whatever they may be.

Peace,
Andy.

[ChiTown24]

I no longer have any f**king idea what you're talking about.

Good luck in your endeavours, whatever they may be.

Peace,
Andy.

Sure you don't like I said... you're being pro-actively dishonest now. You might as well exit in the same fashion. The {now screencapped} PMs never lie!

[ghettosynth]

There are valid points on both sides, but I'm tending towards this being a cut down version of something that would have cost more but been more useful. Like the Analog Rytm ... now that is AFAICT a properly specced and implemented analogue drum machine for the year 2014. Price is not very friendly, though.

To my ears, the Electron machine doesn't struggle to sound current. That said, I'm not generally a fan of analog drums for their own sake and prefer the machinedrum, still, but if that's what one wants, then at least you're getting dedicated analog percussion synthesizers that have much more variety, per voice, and can be combined with samples. Further, the form factor acknowledges that TR style programming is important, but today, most users also want MPC style pads.

The sample playback engine of each voice gives extensive sample manipulation possibilities. Samples can be pitched up and down, bit reduced and looped. Furthermore, start and end points can be manipulated, allowing for reversal of samples. The Analog Rytm uses 16 bit/48kHz/mono samples. Samples with other bit depths and sample rates are possible to use, but will be internally converted to 16 bit/48kHz. Each voice's sample, mixed with its analog drum signal, then goes through the analog overdrive circuit and the analog multimode filter of the voice.

So samples into a multimode, that's what the RS7K does, just like any rompler, except, of course, the RS7K not analog. This is far more useful in performance mode, today, than the original TR controls.

The analog voices are not identical across all voices and are specific to the type of sound. The cymbal/hh models are basically like the 808/606 style design.

All voices have identical digital sample playback engine, overdrive circuit and multimode filter. The difference lies in the specialized percussion sound generators, each designed to generate a specific class of analog drum sounds:

The BD, SD, and RS/CP voices all have a drum sound generator that is basically a small but very flexible dual-oscillator synthesizer capable of a wide array of percussive and electronic sounds. In addition to this, the RS/CP voice has a special circuitry for rimshot synthesis.

The BT voice has a resonant single-oscillator percussion sound generator capable of deep toms and classic boomy bass drum sounds.

The LT and MT/HT voices also have resonant single-oscillator percussion sound generators, but of a more general percussion nature.

The CH/OH voice has a six-oscillator metallic sound generator with several different synthesis methods for creating hihat sounds.

The CY/CB voice also has a six-oscillator metallic sound generator, but with several methods of synthesizing cymbals and cowbells.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51-2dmJko0k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_rtsv9nCUM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6lCugDvOuIQ

[ghettosynth]

If all you use is either 808 or 909 sounds and you manipulate them live like they did way back when, then you will love the TR8.

Indeed, that's what I said, but that came far after my initial criticism, in fact, you've totally taken it out of context, and I think that it's pretty clear why. Here was my initial statement about how the sounds are reasonably accurate, in isolation and the question that I thought was interesting. Some agree, some don't. Those that agree seem to be able to talk about the original instruments as if they understand them. But, that's not the point here.

In other words, if what you're looking for is to recreate the experience of using an 808 or a 909 with a very close, if not for all intents and purposes, identical, sound, then go get yourself a TR8, it does do that. My rejection of the concept is more about why you would want to recreate that experience in the first place?

Now, here's the quote that you've taken out of context, with some important surrounding context.

It's anecdote time;; I've seen plenty of my musical heroes who've been rocking the 808 for years if not decades, constantly gigging, releasing tunes solely on wax.. praise the tr-8 {after buying one with their own dough i.e they're not shilling} and say they will be performing with it in the future, though keeping the vintage model for the studio. Who can argue with Egyptian Lover, for example ?

And I responded to you by pointing out that your hero was simply holding up a drum machine and yelling obscenities into a microphone. I even gave you a video with a time point. Do you seriously think that he's demonstrating talent? If so, please articulate it. So yes, I commented, sure, if that's your thing, you'll love the TR8. Apparently the dripping sarcasm slipped by you?

The comment is completely in the context of saying, sure, if you just want to put on a beat, hold up the TR8 so the audience can see the lights, then you are totally going to love that TR8. It flashes, it's got a green border, it's got an 8 in the name, and it says Roland where it counts. For real, you didn't pick up on that?

Egyptian Lover is stuck in the 80s, if that's your thing, of course the 808 is all you need. You're just making my case that it is a retro piece and not a contemporary piece. What exactly do you think that I mean by party like it's 1999 (well really, 1983 for the 808, 1993 for the 909 and the 808 second coming)? If all you use is either 808 or 909 sounds and you manipulate them live like they did way back when, then you will love the TR8.

(Skip to about 32 minutes in for the 808 "jam", complete with ridiculous MC)

Alright well, there we go. Here's the video again, for those that missed it the first time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DQ52ZT0Yw8

[Mushy Mushy]

I think everybody needs a nice relaxing walk in the park.
808 steps should suffice.

[dcfac73]

If all you use is either 808 or 909 sounds and you manipulate them live like they did way back when, then you will love the TR8.

Which he said on page 38
http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic ... &start=555

Seemed relevant, ironic, funny, etc, to seek out the quote and re-post it considering where he's been going for the last 7 pages, so I went back to quote it...but oh. wait. what's this ? he's made two MASSIVE deletions on page 38. at that stage it seemed his only beef was that this wasn't a 'contemporary' or 'innovative' instrument, and he was bored with the 808 and thus bored with the tr-8. He has since gone back to delete all evidence of this, to justify the current goal of this 'crusade' - which is to say technical limitations... which is, as a motivation to his hugely inane walls of text, very much at odds with his pretty clearly worded position back on page 38. Though this 'technical limitations' angle gives him more scope for endless trolling, even though it's not something he first thought worthy of acknowledgement.... and at first he was trying to browbeat everyone over a subjective matter of opinion - a futile task - he has now, since I pointed out the futility of subjectivity in this 'discussion' - focused on the objective. You can't argue against it's technical limitations. Though, despite what he may wish, there is still a limit to how often you can beat the same drum - pun unintended. If he was a smarter troll, he'd have replaced the deletions/edits with one of his typically massive walls of text.... instead he replaced the original text-walls with atypically single sentence posts.

timestamp of the first instance of dictator style revisionism:
First posted - Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:19 pm
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timestamp of the second instance of dictator style revisionism:
Fri Apr 18, 2014 7:55 pm
Last edited by ghettosynth on Sun Apr 20, 2014 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
{though you can still catch some of this now-deleted post in my reply to it, where I used quotes}

Someone asked earlier what's the real motivation behind this trolling spree of his ? if I were to speculate I'd say loneliness, social isolation, almost certainly hasn't been laid in months if not years. I'd be surprised if he didn't have poor hygiene too. No one commits this kind of trolling without some desperate need for validation that they are not getting 'in the real world' .... the sad thing is one or two people in this thread, who I won't name, are egging him on to amuse themselves... I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same people who engage in office humour type roland jokes {'lolz, accordionz'}, and by the same token, act like hyper-defensive 'fanboys' for other brands. Dunno, just taking a stab in the dark here... alot of this bullshit reads like that.


anyway, as they say, 'dont feed the troll' ... let the emotionally crippled baby have the last word. ignore him, and move on. I doubt anyone at this stage takes him seriously... and any kind of soldering chops he has - have been made utterly redundant by his borderline personality disorder on display here.

ghetto... why don't you disconnect your router for a day or two. make some music. have a shower. and a shave. take a walk. etc. you're wasting your god damn life here.

[Gamma-UT]

Whadya know? It seems Robert Williams has captured this thread using the medium of paint.

[ghettosynth]

Whadya know? It seems Robert Williams has captured this thread using the medium of paint.

Don't forget the soundtrack...so happy...so hardcore...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e541EJNc8Tw

[ghettosynth]

I was wrong about something earlier, while there aren't individual send levels for the effects, there are send switches per voice so that, at the very least, you can choose to route or not route each sound to the effects units. You have to hold down several buttons at the same time to access these. For me, that's still not enough, especially for more modern techno, and AFAIK, you can't apply this per instrument, per step, but it isn't quite as bad as just having a global effect that applies to all instruments. This is per effect, e.g. delay/reverb. It suppose that this would have been a way to enable accent per instrument as well.

Nick Blatt's review shows you how at about 5:40 in this video. He also discusses how the modeling gives you some variation in the sound per hit, of course, so does round robin sampling, but I digress.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYujlzVDTkI