Roland FA -Series Vs. Computers

[Melodyshine]

as it appears that the FA's factory sounds don't have any Supernatural brass or string sounds.

Yes, no supernatural brass but ensemble strings:

http://www.roland.com/support/article/? ... ls&p=FA-06

[jsp1979]

Well, let's go with a different approach.

It's worth noting that my comments are in line with the first set of advice given to you by MachineClaw, who also read your posts and assumed that your issue was a computer one. You DID intimate that in your first post whether you believe it or not.

In my second reply to you,I politely disagreed with on some things & you just got annoyed & frustrated & told me how exhausting I am,because you couldn't be bothered...meanwhile,I'm writing essays,

It's the writing essay part that confuses the whole issue. If you'd just ask a direct question, then you'd get some direct answers. Instead, you fill a post with 40 different topics, and then get upset that someone misunderstands it, when no one can read your mind.

I'll tell you what is truly exhausting,is this bigoted idea you have,that if a company has a history of lackluster products,that such companies will never change & improve for the better.

No...you are not anti-hardware,but you're definitely anti-Roland & you're so blinded by your bigotry for Roland,that it's nearly impossible for you to even consider that Roland finally got something right,with regard to their workstations.

I never said a company that has made lackluster products in the past will never change. THAT is what I mean by you reading into my statements.

The claim that I'm anti-Roland is also absurd. The *only* professional keyboards I've owned have been Rolands, and I loved them all. My current MIDI controller is Roland made. I wouldn't trade it for anything out on the market. My old W-50 went everywhere with me, and it's built like a tank. Works like the day I bought it and it's over 15 years old.

So, you're wrong. I'm not anti-Roland. One again, you took a statement I made about being careful about assuming the quality of a board before it arrives and took it to the extreme that I'm anti-Roland.

What am I supposed to do?Wait a f**king year before I buy the FA-06 and just comb the internet looking for a defect of some sort to arise?

Granted,this is a practice of mine with regard to gaming consoles,

That's an approach that some take.

Why do you do it for gaming systems? Because even well-made consoles by reputable, good companies can have problems, right? That's exactly what I'm saying.

You think I just started this thread because I want people to praise my decision to buy a Roland...

Well when you write a diatribe when someone disagrees with your assessment that the FA-08 *MAY* not be amazing, then yes, it does seem like you just wanted agreement.

I said you were anti-hardware,because you bring up some bullshit about some mono-chromatic LCD screen that Roland made 7 years ago....wow,really?That's one hell of a fine point to make.

Those screens began malfunctioning early on. A number of people were pretty upset with it. Even under warranty, it's a pain to ship off a keyboard to be fixed. So, some of the folks got to have this great keyboard, and then have the fun of sending it off for repairs due to poor quality. Probably not a fun experience when you get a new piece of gear.

So, imagine that someone back then said, "I've had trouble with my computers so I'll by this Juno so I can just work outside of the box." Then, they had the screen issues and had to send it off for a month. That would be really frustrating.

I see where you are coming from now...that nobody is justified in debating any statements you make...ever.

I've got a lot of posts here and I stand 100% on my post history that your statement there is wrong.

However, I don't like it when statements I make are twisted to mean something else. See the statements highlighted above where I dispute your anti-Roland charge. You took a few statements and then jumped to some extreme conclusion.

No, I don't like that, and that's why we're having issues.

Just go away & stick to the software-related threads you seem to prefer...

It's open forum that you don't own or moderate so as my posts are within the rules, you don't get to tell me what to do. I'm sure you'll look back on this as another of your polite posts.

Oh, and while you apparently like digging through my posts, how about you go to the one from weeks ago (before your post), where I ask advice on a new Workstation and mention that I'm looking at the FA-08? I even AGREE it might be great, but I'm just urging to temper your expectations until they're in consumers' hands.

Really, it's not that controversial of a stance.

[elwoodblues1969]

jsp1979,

The only direct questions I asked in my first post,were these two; whether or not Windows ran well on a Mac and about hardware/software configurations(i.e.,the integration between the 2 & what works for whom).
The first question went unanswered completely(& I assumed no one has any experience with this)that read this thread,which is fine.
However,all of this rudimentary stuff about basic internet security,sends the discussion into a tedious and futile direction I didn't care to go in.
These things in of themselves is not really an issue with me,but after I replied to your initial response,you were quick to becoming so frustrated with the misunderstanding that took place,that you felt exhausted & that kind of melodrama is bullshit,to me.
Your excessive cautionary opinions on Roland are bullshit as well,considering that you are a Roland fan...but why?Because Roland doesn't build rock solid tanks anymore?Who does....besides Nord,Kurzweil,Access & a few others(all of which,by the way...either aren't workstations,or they are incomplete workstations in some way)?
I don't like plastic either,but all of the major companies use it(but since I don't play live,I don't really have a hang up over it).
The reason why I don't rush out to buy gaming consoles,is because it's not a high priority(as my musical pursuits have always taken precedence,over gaming)and as such,I'm happy to wait,because gaming consoles are generally consistent in having defects(because gaming companies usually are in a mad scramble to bring a product to the market prematurely for a profit) and they have very few games for them,upon their release.
When was the last time Roland made a full workstation?The Fantom-G?It's been quite a few years,which to me,means that Roland took a step back,re-evaluated their methods & took the necessary time to carefully re-design their next workstation(which is hardly what I'd call what gaming companies usually do with not only their consoles,but also the games for them).
As it turned out,the main reason the MOX6 was a bad investment & experience for me,is that I did not try to return the keyboard within the 45 day period,so it was essentially my fault...but I would not repeat the mistake again.
That being said,my plan with regard to purchasing it,was that if I was unhappy with it for whatever reason,that I would return it in accordance with the return policy or better yet,buy it from Sweetwater and have the 2 year warranty.
Speaking of warranties,why is that a Roland is such a pain in the ass to ship it out to be fixed & why this incessant fear about display screens?Because it caused great upset many years ago?So once again,I ask you...what do Roland's full color screens have to do with a two-tone screen from way back?
When all of the pluses & minuses are tallied up,I really don't see any significant safe bets or advantages over the other,between hardware and software,in terms of reliability & shipping/returns.Generally,you get what you pay for and if you want reliability with computers,one would have to go with something like a MusicComputing PC(which as far as I can tell,are some of the most reliable PC's there are,in terms of performance,durability and power)...but also some of the most expensive PC's out there(with no in-store payment plans,because you buy direct from them).
Yeah....the Roland FA offers a lot and it's inexpensive(which causes concern about quality,naturally)...but I'll stress again...Roland took their time with their product development on this one and since the FA runs of 2.0 SD memory,there is no inherent instability & it's also an inexpensive format to use.
There's also no real reason to think that the FA's screen is anything like the Juno-G's and like I had said,it seems evident that Roland has done a great job at cutting corners where they needed to,without comprising the critical areas of the keyboard.
Yes...the FA does resemble a plastic-piece-of-shit like a Casio in appearance(which may not be a good keyboard to gig with,without a flight case)...but for my home studio,it represents the best option,for what I want to spend & how I want to work.
Honestly,I'd be more sketchy about spending a small fortune on a Korg Kronos,due to the noisy cooling fan and the fact that essentially,the Kronos has a built in computer & maybe some of the common glitches of one.
I think Korg has since resolved some the the key-bed issues with their earlier models,but the fact that such problems would even exist in that price range,does not sit well with me.

I could care a less,if someone disagrees with me over whether or not the Roland FA is "amazing"...but to allege that someone is mostly full of hype,over something that is wrongfully perceived as being a product that is likely to be just a flashy & defective piece of gear(based on a past history of a particular keyboard model),is bullshit.
If I was the type of person to be easily suckered into a flashy piece of gear without investigating it first,then I would have bought a Roland keyboard years ago...but I never did.
Roland has a lengthy past of making excessively expensive keyboard workstations,adding flashy bullshit like 128 tracks & a D-beam gadgets and then further extorting the consumer with outrageously costly cards like the ARX ones.
Before the FA cam about,I NEVER intended on buying a Roland keyboard...ever,but the fact that Roland turned a corner & made a sensible product(most likely),is an amazing thing....it may not be amazingly reliable,but ultimately,I've weighed the risks & at this point in time,I elect not to rely solely on a PC,to make music.
The most aggravating thing about the Yamaha MOX6 I had found,was the DAW integration...but I need not worry about that with the FA's WAV export options and that also,to me,is amazing and one of the compelling factors for my vested interest in the FA.

Speaking of twisting meanings out of whack,I'll say it again,I DID NOT say that I was looking for a workstation to REPLACE my computer,but that I wanted the Roland FA as an alternative to buying a SECOND computer and that the less time spent working exclusively with a PC,was a nice reprieve.

When I said "go away",it meant that I did not want to continue this topic with you...so in other words,I was saying that I am thoroughly annoyed & that I've had enough...so therefore,I have nothing more to say to you....but in retrospect,I would have preferred a much less abrasive way of handling the misunderstandings.

Nope...my posts after my second one in response to you,had ceased being polite...but I found your state of "exhaustion" and your refusal to sort out the misunderstanding in the beginning of all this...very irritating & it set me off.

Someone having genuine concern for another person's investment is something I can really appreciate(assuming that's the case)...but depending on where I buy the FA and when I choose to return it(if need be)...where's the risk?What do I have to lose?
As for expectations,if the FA were not to meet them,I can return it with no additional cost to me and the worst would be...that I would be inconvenienced.

Nope...there's no controversy...and I must admit,that in comparison to all of the unfounded,unsubstantiated,half-baked,rhetoric-ridden ways in which people on YouTube are completely trashing the FA....your opinions are pretty tame.

My passion for gear usually has me speaking with a lot of conviction and I suspect that if were we speaking at a Namm convention in person,rather than trying to decipher one another's texts,I think we would have sorted out our opposing views in a matter of minutes with any discourse whatsoever.

That being said,I apologize for not exercising diplomacy and believe it or not,I don't have anything personal against you..even if you do towards me.

No hard feelings on my end...just a matter of me thinking too hard about gear once again,I suppose....something I tend to do when I am in between musical projects.

[elwoodblues1969]

as it appears that the FA's factory sounds don't have any Supernatural brass or string sounds.

Yes, no supernatural brass but ensemble strings:

http://www.roland.com/support/article/? ... ls&p=FA-06

Thanks for the link.I didn't notice this info before,but then I saw that the data was added only a couple of days ago.

[jsp1979]

elwoodblues1969,

Thanks for your most recent message. We got off on the wrong foot and it seems we couldn't get back on track.

I brought to your message some assumptions based on "typical" KVR user. It's not uncommon to see people complain of computer issues who make very poor decisions on maintaining their computer. So, thinking you might be one of those typical folks, my suggestion was to try to get your computer on track. Often the same users get frustrated and start looking to spend money on hardware to "fix" their problems without thinking through the fact that in the box and out of the box solutions have limitations.

So, anyway, that was in the back of my mind when I read your post so I went down that road (even though I had no idea if that was the case). I didn't want to see someone waste money out of frustration.

That's how my replies to you ended up off kilter, and then things went south from there.

Like you, I think if we were talking in person, then we could've had a much more productive and polite conversation and then we would've played some music. That's life on the internet, I suppose. I apologize for my harsh tone to you as well. Normally, I'm pretty even keel, but I certainly went beyond what I normally would post in my responses.

As for the FA-08, I do agree with you that Roland definitely appears to have a good feature set in this workstation. In fact, in my research, the FA-08 compares very favorably to its competition (from Korg, Yamaha, Kurzweil, etc).

My (personal) concerns about it
--With any new hardware, will there be any "build" issues? As you noted, only time can tell you for certain. Perhaps the warranties will make the risk worth it.
--Will the Axial website truly be maintained with updated content? The expandability of the FA-08 is really attractive, so I hope Roland does provide Axial content on a regular basis. Many times companies will start with a huge update and then let them languish.
--Is the workflow good? Any hidden quirks?

At any rate, I've decided to put off my workstation buy until the summer (after the FA-08 is released) to see how it compares.

If you end up getting one, then I hope you'll give us all a full review. I'd be interested in what you think of it.

When's the expected release date?

[elwoodblues1969]

jsp1979.

Having read through the Music Player Forum(which has some very useful info from people who have logged in some hands-on time on the FA-06),the build quality is more or less what you'd expect...very light-weight,but the key-bed action(on the FA-06) is playable...which is to say that it's sort of a springy semi-weighted action(which is acceptable to me).

Don't know what the FA-08's action is like...but if it's anything like the action on the Korg SV-1 or the Kronos,I may have to wait it out for a long while,to save up enough coin to spring for the 88 keys.

However though...someone had brought up a very important point that I overlooked(mainly because it would be absolutely insane to leave this function out of ANY workstation),which is that someone had asked about whether or not the FA's sequencer has a copy & paste function...and it's a large thread and that question remains unanswered,which really concerns me.
As far as I'm concerned,this is one of the most important functions for a good workflow and it's obviously a standard in hardware and software workstations alike.

If this is true,I may have to pass on the FA...which would be a tremendous disappointment to me,especially after having read that the D/A converters in the FA are top shelf and that the overall sound quality is shockingly pristine.

Depending on the retailer,the release could be March 31st,which has changed from the end of this month,but usually as probably most everyone knows,release dates after a Namm show are very tentative,to say the least.
Sweetwater says it will be available in the spring,so no specific dates is a more realistic approach.

Roland is still in the process of releasing all of the spec-sheet details,as they are apparently still awaiting all of the data from Japan...or China...or wherever this damn thing is designed and manufactured.
That being said,I am not in a panic about it...but my fingers are crossed & my teeth are a bit clenched,because I am really enchanted by the FA's 2.0 SD flash operation,export options and sound layering,because I am insanely hungry for that kind or processing speed and I really don't want that kind of speed slowed down by something as ridiculous as the absence of a copy & paste function!

-Elwood

[elwoodblues1969]

Just read through the manual and noticed that the FA does in fact,have a copy & paste feature...I'm so relieved!

http://imageshack.com/a/img834/31/2s32.png

[meldavid]

No aftertouch.

FA is abbreviation for Fark Aftertouch.

It's omission takes away one of the most useful ways to modulate a sound without having to take your finger off the keys, greatly diminishing its expressiveness as a live instrument. eg. you could be using aftertouch and expression pedal at the same time, whilst simultaneously reaching for the d-beam with your other hand.

[vurt]

My main issue,is with Windows 7...because once I turn on my PC in the morning,I never shut it down-but rather,I log off & put it into sleep mode(since I use it intermittently throughout the day & night).
Due to this,my PC often behaves erratically,once I take my PC out of sleep mode and sometimes my Reason DAW has display issues,or does not save files correctly...in which case I have to go back to the starting point from were I last saved my work,after I restart my computer.
This is really odd,because Reason is the most stable DAW I've ever used(but as long as I don't put my PC into sleep mode,I never have any such issues).

so rather than shutting down and restarting your pc when you want to use it you want to spend a grand on something else?

do you have volcano insurance?

[UltraJv]

Sleep mode/hibernate or any power save on Mac or PC is a no go. It will cause trouble. For Audio - its needs to be full throttle all of the time. This comes up frequently. Stop using sleep mode = problem solved.

[elwoodblues1969]

No aftertouch.

You can use an expression pedal for after-touch.

[elwoodblues1969]

My main issue,is with Windows 7...because once I turn on my PC in the morning,I never shut it down-but rather,I log off & put it into sleep mode(since I use it intermittently throughout the day & night).
Due to this,my PC often behaves erratically,once I take my PC out of sleep mode and sometimes my Reason DAW has display issues,or does not save files correctly...in which case I have to go back to the starting point from were I last saved my work,after I restart my computer.
This is really odd,because Reason is the most stable DAW I've ever used(but as long as I don't put my PC into sleep mode,I never have any such issues).

so rather than shutting down and restarting your pc when you want to use it you want to spend a grand on something else?

do you have volcano insurance?

How very pithy of you sir...to take my overall purpose for adding hardware to my studio out of context,by way of quoting only a mere snippet of my post....it's that classic & feeble method of attempting to make someone appear obtuse.
Either that,or it's a foregone conclusion that you are incapable of embracing the concept that someone might actually have a multitude of reasons for wanting alternative recording options(which include more pressing ones,that I've mentioned,that you've excluded).

[elwoodblues1969]

Sleep mode/hibernate or any power save on Mac or PC is a no go. It will cause trouble. For Audio - its needs to be full throttle all of the time. This comes up frequently. Stop using sleep mode = problem solved.

It's interesting to know that Mac's have this issue also.As for what is best for the longevity of a computer & it' s performance while powered up,is so speculative..as depending on who you talk to,so many people have various solutions that work for them.

I read where one guy had all of his computers in nothing but sleep mode for 8 years,without EVER shutting them down.

If there is any shred of truth to this at all(which I can't imagine),I have no clue how he managed to pull that off & it was the only instance I have ever read about.

According to Scientific American,a PC is more likely to be taken down by a virus,rather than it taking a dump because your are powering up & shutting down frequently.

According to PCWorld,they recommend hibernation mode to save energy & say nothing of any adverse effects of doing this.

[EvilDragon]

No aftertouch.

You can use an expression pedal for after-touch.

That's not nearly the same thing.

[UltraJv]

Sleep mode/hibernate or any power save on Mac or PC is a no go. It will cause trouble. For Audio - its needs to be full throttle all of the time. This comes up frequently. Stop using sleep mode = problem solved.

It's interesting to know that Mac's have this issue also.As for what is best for the longevity of a computer & it' s performance while powered up,is so speculative..as depending on who you talk to,so many people have various solutions that work for them.

I read where one guy had all of his computers in nothing but sleep mode for 8 years,without EVER shutting them down.

If there is any shred of truth to this at all(which I can't imagine),I have no clue how he managed to pull that off & it was the only instance I have ever read about.

According to Scientific American,a PC is more likely to be taken down by a virus,rather than it taking a dump because your are powering up & shutting down frequently.

According to PCWorld,they recommend hibernation mode to save energy & say nothing of any adverse effects of doing this.

My advice is to do purely with DAWs. Ive seen it many times on KVR. Youll not get good advice anywhere except DAW specialists. A DAW is not a general purpose PC. For low latency audio (realtime), special requirements are needed. Your lucky your gamer PC runs ok as a DAW. High power graphics cards can cause trouble. Power saving modes disable devices and drivers that wont affect other uses of PC. You came here for specific advice about DAW useage. Thats it

Heres the same take from Steinberg :

"5. Any energy saving option should be deactivated or set to "none". The system should be configured for continued operations. If this is not done, hard disks will throttle in speed or toggle off after a while and some processors will down clock and slow down. Because of this, our products could stop functioning correctly. For current Cubase and Nuendo releases, please see #10 which covers this part.

https://www.steinberg.net/en/support/kn ... /2020.html


Its worth reading the whole info as many systems other than Cubase/Nuendo will benefit from it.