Nord Lead A1 - Why ADR envelopes?

[zerocrossing]

The KingKORG had crossed my mind, but I just don't like the look of the interface, as I want as little menu diving as possible on this occasion, plus I don't really have space. It really has to be another desktop. Plus the KingKORG is the same price new as an A1R new where I'm from.

I agree. I'm constantly looking at the KingKORG and thinking, "Really, do you have to be taking up an entire tier on my keyboard stand?"

It's not the look of the UI that bugs me... (though I'm not thrilled with that goldtone finish) it's some of the ass backwards decisions... the module controls are not laid out in any logical way in terms of signal flow. I can get over that, but the amount of menu diving to do some pretty basic stuff is crap. It's one menu you have to scroll though to find the parameter you want to change. Korg should take a lesson from Roland in this respect, they do it better. All these things I could forgive on a budget board, but not for a $1300 USD keyboard.

However, I didn't (and would never) pay $1300 for the KingKORG. I paid $700 for it used and at that price point I'm willing to look past the warts because the thing really does have a great sound.

[barryfell]

The KingKORG had crossed my mind, but I just don't like the look of the interface, as I want as little menu diving as possible on this occasion, plus I don't really have space. It really has to be another desktop. Plus the KingKORG is the same price new as an A1R new where I'm from.

I agree. I'm constantly looking at the KingKORG and thinking, "Really, do you have to be taking up an entire tier on my keyboard stand?"

It's not the look of the UI that bugs me... (though I'm not thrilled with that goldtone finish) it's some of the ass backwards decisions... the module controls are not laid out in any logical way in terms of signal flow. I can get over that, but the amount of menu diving to do some pretty basic stuff is crap. It's one menu you have to scroll though to find the parameter you want to change. Korg should take a lesson from Roland in this respect, they do it better. All these things I could forgive on a budget board, but not for a $1300 USD keyboard.

However, I didn't (and would never) pay $1300 for the KingKORG. I paid $700 for it used and at that price point I'm willing to look past the warts because the thing really does have a great sound.

Yeah I think that's how I'd feel if I owned one. As you say though, for $700 it's worth a look, but not $1300. (or even worse, £999 ($1,699) where I'm from!) I see they sell for between £500-550 used here in the UK so don't appear to be holding their price that well.

[thunderkyss]

While I do agree some of the decisions Nord made with the A1 are truly perplexing, the thing that gets me... the thing that took the A1 off the table... the thing I couldn't get past...



The steal side panels... WTF??

[tylerdurden91]

Well... I guess A1 is not for you then. (Or me. Lack of aftertouch on Nords is ridiculously stupid.)

I'm with you. I've listened to demos of the latest out of Clavia and while they seem to have nailed the synth engine part, they seem to be plagued with feature omissions one wouldn't expect from instruments in that price range.
So if you really want the ADSR envs it's the NL4 for you... or you could get a Virus... Prophet 08... 12, Kingkorg... etc.
Do people look to Nord for a synth that cuts corners? I don't think so. People who really want a taste of the Nord sound at bargain prices need only to buy Discovery Pro. (yes, I know it's not totally the same) I sold my NL2r soon after the last Discovery Pro release and I'd be curious to hear it up against a NL4 or A1. Software has gotten so good these days that a VA/Hybrid hardware synth better have a nice feature set, kick ass sound engine and a good price to wake me up. Just being red doesn't cut it any more.

How did the Nord Lead go from $1,000 to $1800...what's really changed,4 more notes of polyphony and included effects?
If the A1 were an analogue keyboard,instead of virtual analogue...then the price would make sense..somewhat.
Not really sure why anyone would compare hardware to software in terms of price(especially since hardware is specific to the live performance demographic)...but since it was brought up,what's the big deal about Discovery Pro??
Yeah...this VST is convenient,in that it supports Nord Lead 2 sysex data...but if programmed correctly,Reason could emulate the sounds and a developer making a Reason Refill of the Nord Lead,would be a stretch at all.
In fact,SoundCell makes a Nord Modular G2X Refill that sounds amazing...I'm thinking about purchasing that Refill right at this moment,actually....

[Shy]

If a bunch of samples from G2X (the "refill") sound amazing, it's only because G2X can sound amazing, and no one is ever going to seriously compare such a thing to the actual, extremely versatile synth, and if such a product is a good enough alternative of a G2X for you, then G2X itself is VERY MUCH not for you in the first place.

Discovery Pro has always been like a toy version of a Nord Lead, and it doesn't matter how many new filters he's going to add, the oscillators are much worse and the sound is just broken and farty in comparison, especially in a patch with any significant amount of interaction between two oscillators.

Every time people say software is or may be a good enough alternative (various cases, not this), no one demonstrates it, and every time I demonstrate that it isn't, the discussion dies. I guess it's a good thing I don't own a Nord Lead anymore. No one in forums like these wants to listen to people who say there are practical, bottom-line, sound-related reasons those synths are used instead of cheap imitations. But many do like to talk about how much more technically advanced the software alternatives are or can be because they're implemented with "more bits" and can use much more processing power, while it means nothing when the implementations themselves are clearly much worse.

I think Clavia's new hardware is way overpriced and aimed mainly at people with lots of money to spare. They've decided that that's where their market is, well, fine, but I don't believe it. Most musicians who are interested in products like theirs and could really use them well (as opposed to most owners, who don't), just can't afford them. The economic situation is not that f**king great, Clavia, and yet people still need good sounding musical instruments in their lives. Some people know that "you can work with any piece of crap imaginable if you're a superhero talented guy" is a bunch of BS when you actually care about sound quality. No one sensible buys a piece of crap guitar, violin or cymbal and tries to make it sound "good enough", because everyone knows a polished turd is still a turd, except some delusional virtual instrument / effect users who are detached from reality. And I'm not saying software "VA" are generally worse than hardware. By far most virtual analog hardware synths are much worse than some plugins.

[tylerdurden91]

If a bunch of samples from G2X (the "refill") sound amazing, it's only because G2X can sound amazing, and no one is ever going to seriously compare such a thing to the actual, extremely versatile synth, and if such a product is a good enough alternative of a G2X for you, then G2X itself is VERY MUCH not for you in the first place.

Discovery Pro has always been like a toy version of a Nord Lead, and it doesn't matter how many new filters he's going to add, the oscillators are much worse and the sound is just broken and farty in comparison, especially in a patch with any significant amount of interaction between two oscillators.

Every time people say software is or may be a good enough alternative (various cases, not this), no one demonstrates it, and every time I demonstrate that it isn't, the discussion dies. I guess it's a good thing I don't own a Nord Lead anymore. No one in forums like these wants to listen to people who say there are practical, bottom-line, sound-related reasons those synths are used instead of cheap imitations. But many do like to talk about how much more technically advanced the software alternatives are or can be because they're implemented with "more bits" and can use much more processing power, while it means nothing when the implementations themselves are clearly much worse.

I think Clavia's new hardware is way overpriced and aimed mainly at people with lots of money to spare. They've decided that that's where their market is, well, fine, but I don't believe it. Most musicians who are interested in products like theirs and could really use them well (as opposed to most owners, who don't), just can't afford them. The economic situation is not that f**king great, Clavia, and yet people still need good sounding musical instruments in their lives. Some people know that "you can work with any piece of crap imaginable if you're a superhero talented guy" is a bunch of BS when you actually care about sound quality. No one sensible buys a piece of crap guitar, violin or cymbal and tries to make it sound "good enough", because everyone knows a polished turd is still a turd, except some delusional virtual instrument / effect users who are detached from reality. And I'm not saying software "VA" are generally worse than hardware. By far most virtual analog hardware synths are much worse than some plugins.

Well....here's something really interesting...the Nord Lead 2X had been discontinued,followed by the special edition version with a price tag of $1500(long before the recession took a turn for the worst).
The only difference between the two versions,was that the special edition had a reverse color scheme on the keys and that only 300 were made.
I wanted a Nord Lead 2X in the worst possible way,but by the time I had the money for one,the $1,000 version was gone.
I had a Kurzweil PC3LE6 and the synth engine was so distinctive in it's sonic character,that I thought I would never hear that kind of quality again(that is...until I got my hands on Bitley's Fairlight Platinum...for my Reason DAW).
It was then,that I didn't really give a f**k about Kurzweil's beautiful,but dysfunctional & outdated hardware keyboards.
Yeah...I still like hardware,but with a quality keyboard controller and a properly programmed VST library,I really don't care for hardware much at all.
By the way...if the keyboard market is so utterly devastated by the current economy,then how do you explain how Korg managed to provide a reasonable facsimile of the $8,500 Oasys and scale it down to a $4,000 rig?
Or what about the Roland FA-series?Incredible sound quality at a entry level price.No...not quite the same as a Nord...but the quality of a Roland FA keyboard 10 years ago,would have cost nearly twice as much.
As technology progresses,the economic factor does not play much of a role in pricing.

[Shy]

Oasys has always been a very low availability, very low quantity product. Roland's FA workstation keyboards have a much lower quality build than Fantom X, and they cost less. I think Fantom X with similar build quality would have cost about the same. And they're also in a quite different category than synth keyboards like Clavia's or Access's, they're used by people who depend on those portable, self-contained "workstations", and by far most of them don't use it for recording music. Jupiter-80 costs about twice as much. It's also a synth aimed at people who have lots of money to spare. And no, it seems to me that progression of technology plays very little role in pricing (especially in the case of companies that depend on Motorola/freescale DSP chips which haven't changed in decades), and the economic factor is the main thing that affects pricing, with companies charging more and more money while the economy gets worse and worse, aiming at wealthier people while drifting further and further away from the mainstream, on purpose.

[tylerdurden91]

Oasys has always been a very low availability, very low quantity product. Roland's FA workstation keyboards have a much lower quality build than Fantom X, and they cost less. I think Fantom X with similar build quality would have cost about the same. And they're also in a quite different category than synth keyboards like Clavia's or Access's, they're used by people who depend on those portable, self-contained "workstations", and by far most of them don't use it for recording music. Jupiter-80 costs about twice as much. It's also a synth aimed at people who have lots of money to spare. And no, it seems to me that progression of technology plays very little role in pricing (especially in the case of companies that depend on Motorola/freescale DSP chips which haven't changed in decades), and the economic factor is the main thing that affects pricing, with companies charging more and more money while the economy gets worse and worse, aiming at wealthier people while drifting further and further away from the mainstream, on purpose.

Well...most every entry/mid level workstation are built like shit,but what is very different about the FA-series,is Roland has NEVER released anything with this level of sound quality & functionality and NO other workstation has ever implemented flash memory and multiple WAV export options in this price range..which is the point I was trying to make.
Yes indeed,the build quality of the FA-6 is atrocious and this is the ONLY reason why I didn't buy one for myself....a damn shame.
Roland doesn't care that there are people like me out there,that would happily pay..say,$1,500 for a 61 key,rather than $1,200...just to have good build quality.
To put a finer point on it...& with the exception of my Kurzweil PC3LE6,all of the entry-level workstation/synths I've ever had,had piss-poor build quality...such as the Korg M50,Yamaha MOX6,Novation XioSynth and although the chassis & knobs of my former Alesis Ion were solid,the key-bed was the absolute worst,in terms terms of key-bed feel and even the OS was very unstable.

[thunderkyss]

I've got to get my hands on one of these. I can't imagine Roland skimping on build quality.

Sure, the Gaia & SH-201 are largely plastic, but I thought they were built pretty well.

[barryfell]

I got one of these yesterday and have spent about 12 hours with it so far.

I REALLY like it!

It sounds superb, and right up my street in terms of typical timbre. It's actually hard to make it sound bad. It's also incredibly quick to do things that would often be tedious or impossible to do with other synths. (Such as multi focus so you can control all layers at once for example)

I'm pretty new to synthesis so this kind of synth is great for me, as I often get a bit overwhelmed with so many options on my other synths.

I was a bit unsure about not having a screen but in practice i've found the LED screen along with the Nord Sound Manager to do everything I need, and actually I prefer having software to manage patches rather than enter text etc via the hardware, especially as patches loaded on the hardware from the software which I didn't expect.

The morph and mutate sound functions are great, and unison, layering and the good FX just make it so lush. :synth:

I haven't found the ADR envelopes to be an issue at all.

[Wormhelmet]

I'll have to agree that Discovery softsynth is NOT a Nord. It might look similar and have similar features and interchangeably switch patches, but it's all about the sound. It is lacking compared to the hardware. I really like Discovery too, it's just not going to beat the real thing sound wise. The 2X can be had used for anywhere between $750 and $1200 depending on seller and condition.

Menu diving isn't so fun on other VA's like the Blofeld. It does have the bigger display, but compared to the Waldorf Q rack, it's just not as fun and easy to tweak. Nord Lead, Access Virus, Korg Radias. I prefer knobs and buttons anyday over matrices for fewer knobs. Just can't get into the workflow as well on sound designing. Blofeld does have amazing sound though. I don't think having a slimmed down set of envelope control with a workaround would be that limiting, but in first learned about all that stuff on an old Korg EX800. Anything is better than that tedious process. I actually really dig my Minibrute for sound design. One knob/slider per function or simple toggle switch to change function. Can't get much faster than that on workflow.

[barryfell]

Menu diving isn't so fun on other VA's like the Blofeld. It does have the bigger display, but compared to the Waldorf Q rack, it's just not as fun and easy to tweak. Nord Lead, Access Virus, Korg Radias. I prefer knobs and buttons anyday over matrices for fewer knobs. Just can't get into the workflow as well on sound designing. Blofeld does have amazing sound though. I don't think having a slimmed down set of envelope control with a workaround would be that limiting, but in first learned about all that stuff on an old Korg EX800. Anything is better than that tedious process. I actually really dig my Minibrute for sound design. One knob/slider per function or simple toggle switch to change function. Can't get much faster than that on workflow.

Agreed, i'm just about to sell my Blofeld and Pulse 2 now I have an A1. The matrix interface on them isn't bad, and is obviously is the reason they can sell them at those low price points, but I just didn't gel with them.

[EvilDragon]

I'll never let go of my Blo. It's really good. And with Laszlo's computer editor it's even better. Drawing custom wavetables FTW!

[barryfell]

I'll never let go of my Blo. It's really good. And with Laszlo's computer editor it's even better. Drawing custom wavetables FTW!

Fair enough. I agree it's really good in terms of how it sounds, but I just never got on with the interface. For that reason I'm happy just using Largo in its place, which sounds as good to me.

[EvilDragon]

Largo is cool (that's why I have it, too!), but different from the Blofeld when everything is added and subtracted. Largo:

* doesn't do samples
* doesn't have the PPG filter mode
* doesn't have custom wavetable possibility
* doesn't have Ctrl W, X, Y, Z modulators active

Other than that, Largo offers FX per part (this does add CPU load, naturally), but only 4 parts. Multiple outputs are cool. Also, increased polyphony (if your CPU can handle it) up to 256 voices, pretty neat.


I would say they are complimentary rather than substituting each other.