How reliable are your hardware synths?

[goldenanalog]

[Uncle E]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but what is the appeal for blofeld if you aren't playing live? It's a digital synth with only a few knobs. I mean if you're really after Waldorf's wavetable stuff, I can see that, but, if it's just a choice among "tabletop synths", I'm not sure that I get the appeal.

FWIW, it sounds different from Largo and quite a bit better, IMO. Also, the interface is pretty smart and very easy to get around on. I do agree with you about the Prophet and Analog Four, though, and I'm really looking forward to the DAW integration that Elektron will be adding.

[Uncle E]

I initially posted the wrong video. These are the ones I was talking about. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXWsv41lx8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9rbprK_EpA

-Sam

Videos fixed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXWsv41lx8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9rbprK_EpA

[lacandon]

We have here micro brute and some other synths no problems for now at all..same with rack gear have one witch its 30 + old and still works,no problem as well with the Electribe witch to me looks very fragile build but actually its good quality! The hardware is more reliable for me then the computers witch always needs updates and better cpu and stuff witch drive me nuts and kill all the inspiration to make music at all!
If you maintain good your gear and don't abuse it there is nothing to worry for!

[Uncle E]

We have here micro brute and some other synths no problems for now at all..same with rack gear have one witch its 30 + old and still works,no problem as well with the Electribe witch to me looks very fragile build but actually its good quality!

All my Electribes are still working like new after 15 years, even after performing with them live at desert raves in the late 90s.

[lacandon]

We have here micro brute and some other synths no problems for now at all..same with rack gear have one witch its 30 + old and still works,no problem as well with the Electribe witch to me looks very fragile build but actually its good quality!

All my Electribes are still working like new after 15 years, even after performing with them live at desert raves in the late 90s.

Quite suprising they looks like a toy but they are solid and for some reason there is something nice and deeper in their sound,Maschine is great but something its sound just don't inspire me..
The other one very solid build we have is the Blokey build like tank dropped it couple of times its works as new no scratches even this metal case seems to least a century .

[lacandon]

We have here micro brute and some other synths no problems for now at all..same with rack gear have one witch its 30 + old and still works,no problem as well with the Electribe witch to me looks very fragile build but actually its good quality!

All my Electribes are still working like new after 15 years, even after performing with them live at desert raves in the late 90s.

Quite suprising they looks like a toy but they are solid and for some reason there is something nice and deeper in their sound,Maschine is great but something in its sound just don't inspire me..
The other one very solid build we have is the Blokey build like tank dropped it couple of times its works as new no scratches even this metal case seems to least a century .

[ghettosynth]

I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but what is the appeal for blofeld if you aren't playing live? It's a digital synth with only a few knobs. I mean if you're really after Waldorf's wavetable stuff, I can see that, but, if it's just a choice among "tabletop synths", I'm not sure that I get the appeal.

FWIW, it sounds different from Largo and quite a bit better, IMO.

Sure, but I don't just mean "Waldorf" plugins, there are quite a few wavetable plugins. I use some Reaktor ensembles for that.

Also, the interface is pretty smart and very easy to get around on.

Sure, so is the K2Ks , perhaps not as nice as blofelds as it only has one data slider. I get it, it's in the middle. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't find hardware worth it unless the sound is really unique, or the convenience and/or interface factors are really up there. A middle of the road digital synthesizer attached to a middle of the road interface is exactly the kind of thing that I think is best done with plugin plus controller. That's my opinion, YMMV.

My experience tells me that hardware like that doesn't do the same thing for you that having a fully laid out synthesizer does and you might come away from the experience thinking "I tried hardware and it wasn't all that." I'm just saying that I agree, those kinds of interfaces are not all that and neither is the synthesis technology.

As an example, I was jamming on a Juno 60 and Matrix 12. I was debating what to do with the Juno, long story, out of place here. At any rate, my better half says "You should sell the M12, you make beautiful music with the Juno 60." She was implying, of course, that what was coming out of the M12 was less than beautiful. Well, what was really happening was that she was unknowingly comparing the human interface character of the two synths. The Juno 60 is miles ahead of the M12, which, much like the blofeld, is a compromise. The immediacy of the the Juno makes it a wonderful synthesizer for "sonic improvisation" whereas the M12 requires a a slightly more deliberate approach. Of course, the M12 is a fabulous synthesizer that can cover sonic landscape that the Juno can't touch.

For me the blofeld fails on both counts. It's a compromise interface, better than some, I agree, and a compromise sound, better than some, I agree. That's why I say I wouldn't consider that kind of a synth in hardware, it's just not enough for me. If you will, its sound/interface product isn't high enough.

YMMV.

[Uncle E]

Quite suprising they looks like a toy but they are solid and for some reason there is something nice and deeper in their sound,Maschine is great but something its sound just don't inspire me.

There's something to be said for the limitation of the Electribes. When you make something rocking on nothing but your EA-1 and some headphones, it's pretty much a guarantee that it'll sound amazing when you stick it in the middle of a full arrangement. Maschine sounds as good as its plugins, which means it'll sound better than the EA-1 when you're using something like DIVA or LuSH-101, but I think there's too much temptation to switch to something else to make a part work. With the Electribe, WYSIWYG and thus you need to keep pushing it further in a single direction to get results.

[lacandon]

Quite suprising they looks like a toy but they are solid and for some reason there is something nice and deeper in their sound,Maschine is great but something its sound just don't inspire me.

There's something to be said for the limitation of the Electribes. When you make something rocking on nothing but your EA-1 and some headphones, it's pretty much a guarantee that it'll sound amazing when you stick it in the middle of a full arrangement. Maschine sounds as good as its plugins, which means it'll sound better than the EA-1 when you're using something like DIVA or LuSH-101, but I think there's too much temptation to switch to something else to make a part work. With the Electribe, WYSIWYG and thus you need to keep pushing it further in a single direction to get results.

I agree with that u said but electribe never let me down with little analog compression on the way in during mixing somehow sounds more pure to me software sounds a bit too perfect harsh .. Kinda similar with the Microbrute using very little to no processing for it , but to make soft synths sits that hot in a mix always require tweaking the sound and its still tiny perfect sounding dunno it doesn't sound as acoustic or real in the final mix to me as well bit death and boring.. Sometimes we are spending lot of time just to mix software instruments and its kinda become boring at some point,with hw we spend the time actually doing more music instead of tweaking it.For some reason limitations make u more creative ..

[JCJR]

As an example, I was jamming on a Juno 60 and Matrix 12. I was debating what to do with the Juno, long story, out of place here. At any rate, my better half says "You should sell the M12, you make beautiful music with the Juno 60." She was implying, of course, that what was coming out of the M12 was less than beautiful. Well, what was really happening was that she was unknowingly comparing the human interface character of the two synths. The Juno 60 is miles ahead of the M12, which, much like the blofeld, is a compromise. The immediacy of the the Juno makes it a wonderful synthesizer for "sonic improvisation" whereas the M12 requires a a slightly more deliberate approach. Of course, the M12 is a fabulous synthesizer that can cover sonic landscape that the Juno can't touch.

Those are both such nice axes. I'm jealous. Good point that all the sliders on the juno allow better real time tweak while play. It is a blind spot I wouldn't have thought of, because I rarely tweak while playing, though enjoy tweaking plenty.

Guess I avoided tweaking while playing because usually had both hands and feet busy. I didn't even do program changes during a song. Ever. There was too much risk of making a mistake. The string part suddenly turns into martian krumhorns, and I have to stop playing piano to free up a hand and fix it.

[lacandon]

I initially posted the wrong video. These are the ones I was talking about. Sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdXWsv41lx8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9rbprK_EpA

-Sam

Yes, it's a wavetable synth, so, no doubt that you can get some different sounds out of it. I was really just questioning the value of the hardware. In general, I don't see it for this type of thing, but, YMMV. I would use plugins for those sounds.

If you specifically want wavetable synths in hardware then you don't have many choices and the blofeld isn't expensive if you don't want the keyboard.

Blofeld it's very capable synth but it needs lot of deep programming the presets are huge let down .. and definitely needs outboard processing compression and some effects the sound is not good at all the filter is dull etc..

[Uncle E]

Sure, but I don't just mean "Waldorf" plugins, there are quite a few wavetable plugins. I use some Reaktor ensembles for that.

Sure, so is the K2Ks , perhaps not as nice as blofelds as it only has one data slider. I get it, it's in the middle. I've just come to the conclusion that I don't find hardware worth it unless the sound is really unique, or the convenience and/or interface factors are really up there. A middle of the road digital synthesizer attached to a middle of the road interface is exactly the kind of thing that I think is best done with plugin plus controller.

For me the blofeld fails on both counts. It's a compromise interface, better than some, I agree, and a compromise sound, better than some, I agree. That's why I say I wouldn't consider that kind of a synth in hardware, it's just not enough for me. If you will, it's sound/interface product isn't high enough.

Sure. I can talk all day about how much I like the sound of the Blofeld because I do genuinely like it, but the reality is that I use the Powercore Virus because I'm dependent on that integration with my DAW. The Blofeld is a good solution for someone who is specifically trying to go hardware but I agree with you that it's not that compelling if all else is equal. I think Waldorf needs to integrate the awesome Rocket filter and release a Blofeld+, it probably wouldn't cost much more than the current Blofeld if it's paraphonic and that would be a compelling reason to go hardware.

btw, I'm glad that you brought up the K2K, I loved that interface and this reminds me that not everyone has the patience for tedious hardware interfaces that I have.

[ghettosynth]

btw, I'm glad that you brought up the K2K, I loved that interface and this reminds me that not everyone has the patience for tedious hardware interfaces that I have.

I thought that it was great when I first got the machine. Truth be told, I think that the keyboard is better, it's one of those "I'm not sure if I regret buying the rack because I really needed the features, but it was always a struggle to get comfortable with it", but whatever. It's slow compared to using plugins with a mouse, keyboard, and screen. Yes, everything is in the right units, yes, it's intuitive, and yes, it's a LOT better than some other manufacturers in how orthogonal it is, but it's still a tedious interface to do a lot of editing.

Scrolling through blocks was great, but I think that a mouse dropdown is better. Editing funs would certainly be easier by just typing them on a keyboard. No matter how you slice it, envelopes are easier with at least one slider per segment.

The K2K, like the Nord, changed my live playing but I have no interest in going back. BTW: I replaced it a few years later with the RS7K which is a great example of hardware with an interface that really justifies the hardware. It's too bad the sound just isn't there. I haven't had great luck integrating it with my ITB software, but I've tried a few times.

[Uncle E]

Truth be told, I think that the keyboard is better, it's one of those "I'm not sure if I regret buying the rack because I really needed the features, but it was always a struggle to get comfortable with it"

I've had both. I "upgraded" to the rack for the features but it was a huge compromise in terms of usability. I definitely did more editing when I had the keyboard. The best reason for owning a K2500/K2600 keyboard is that awesome ribbon strip.