This then turned into a massive slug fest with digging out backup info about me (which makes me think to actually drop my homepages altogether - as it seems that pretty much everything can be used against you these days), and then the comment that I should "invest more money rather than investing in Behringer gear".
The last comment ended like this:
djscorb wrote:If you got second place in the KVR mixoff (or whatever it is called) using Behringer speakers then that is something you can be extremely happy with. I take my hat off to you for that achievment. That being said, I can't help but wonder how easily you might have won it had you invested a bit more in your monitoring!
Paying almost as much as you did your speakers for ARC to correct / improve them seems like it might have been money better saved towards buying a more respectable speaker at some point in your career no?
I need better speakers for what I do and going up to the next level is something that will cost me dearly and won't be a leap I can do anytime soon.
I dislike Behringer because they freeload from other more talented and hardworking companies' R & D. The Guitar and Keyboard centre here in Brighton UK don't even stock much of the Behringer gear offered on their website in their physical store due to many of the products having terrible build quality, which results for them in too many returns.
Please sit back, grab some popcorn and let me "rant" on that topic a little.
WHY I'M USING BEHRINGER GEAR - AND WHY I THINK IT'S GREAT:
First, let me get down to a small list of Behringer equipment I have and use on a daily basis.
- Truth 2031A Monitor Speakers
- Ultramatch 2496SRC (DAC)
- CT100 Cable Tester
- Control Rotary/Fader 2000 (I control Cubase with them, but C7.x has nasty issues with the HUI/babyHUI protocol)
- Powerplay Pro XL HA4700 Headphone Amp
- Mic Ultragain 200 (DI purposes)
- B2 Pro Large Membrane Microphone (all-rounder mic)
- Eurodesk 2442A (Recordng console) and Eurorack 2004A (playback console)
And I'd actually use more like the DEQ2496 Ultra-Curve Pro, some of their various guitar stomp boxes (Tube Screamer and Boss OD clones), the "off project" Bugera Amps, the ADA8200 (if it would be able to switch into SMUX mode), the X-Touch gear (if there'd be an AES-50 adapter for RME for their ADC's, or a suitable rotary bank for their controller range), the Xenyx Control1 (though I decided against that due to missing EQ per channel - IMO still better than SM Pro Audio and Mackie Big Knob!), etc. I'm even still eyeing a FCB 1010 foot controller, mod it with a custom OS chip and use it as add-on for various things (guitar amps, controlling VSTi keyswitches, etc).
These modules I just mentioned, are considered to so called "secret treasures" of Behringer.
I write that in quotation marks, since some might not necessarily agree with me. But there is a certain fanbase in the audio realm (just take a dive over on GearSlutz with their Behringer threads). Yet the company as a whole is frowned upon. It goes even as far as people keeping quiet on this topic, rather than revealing of /admitting to themselves of being Behringer users as well.
To a certain extend this criticism adjusted (I'll get to that in a minute), but overall it's just some blown up negative image thanks to "old-established" engineers and "music magazines" (pay more for advertising, get better reviews - that simple) that never really took the time to dive deeper into that gear. And those that don't educate themselves more further in/on that topic, simply pick it up as "it is said to be crap - has to be crap". Which in turn created a lot of prejudice.
Those people rather access something that they could/wanted to afford with their (large) budget, or have a more "well recognized" name instead of jumping into cold water. An issue not only for Behringer, but also other pretty much "unknown" companies that create "rebuilds" or really creative hardware solutions.
Something that thankfully changed for the better with the internet (IMO)
Still...
"the company is unknown/it's reputation is bad, why I should I go for it?!"
"It's cheap, it has to be cheap"
"It's crap gear, if you use it, you're a crap musician/engineer"
"I wouldn't even touch that with a 10-foot pole"
"It's a noise machine"
"it's a throw-away product from China"
"just invest more and you'll get <insert random gear with more than often less features>, and it even sounds better!"
"this sound chip sounds worse than that sound chip"
"this device is using SMD, that mixing console is using regular spare parts" (the most funniest argument I've ever heard as trained IT system electronics technician)
I hear such comments since the day I stepped into the music realm.
But there are a couple of major thing that are not to be underestimated:
- the gear is affordable
- the gear might be "blatant copies" to some, but they sometimes even improve upon their original gear design they were "inspired from" (the 2496SRC and the HA4700 come to mind)
- even with the criticism, the company is existing since 1989 with no sign of being wiped off the planet - still with the focus to offer "low budget gear, with access to great tools in return"
Pretty much what a lot of VST plugin companies do these days
Though granted, Behringer also has some negative "side effects" - which might be the main cause for their reputation:
- noise (depending on what device you got, you can fix this)
- insufficient manual (a huge issue if you're not skilled in that area - the CT100 and Tube Ultragain series is an absolute mess, some sentences in the Ultramatch manual don't make sense)
- they are sometimes broken on arrival (design flaw, my Truth series had the infamous "limiter shutoff" bug, which was an easy fix - the late ADA8000 shut off the audio stream after several seconds of silence and needed more than 5ms to "jump back on" again)
- support is pretty much non-existent (still waiting for certain answers to questions - even calls ended in dead ends)
This results in certain shops not picking up gear, due to it's reputation (wherever it came from, from comments in interviews, consumer feedback, magazines, etc) - and to a certain extend also the fault of Behringer (lack of support). But I was never scared off of that, I always took a closer second look and was never, ever disappointed at the gear I got in the end.
Though I have to admit, I did have my misses as well. For example the Ultragain 200 is not really a good preamp. Putting aside the very minimalistic manual, it's pretty much useless other than for using it as a DI, or over driving it on purpose. I also never liked the Xenyx series, which is stated to be "more clean and overhauled in design" - nothing comes close to the old MX series design IMO (logical layout, not necessarily the filter settings). I also don't like their power amps, or passive amps and speakers. The TRUTH series and the new "KRK" collaboration however, are one of the better speaker builds. Even though I hate the KRK sound. The USB type ADC are too limited. The V-Amp still has a worse reputation than the Line POD as well (even though both of them turned obsolete with Laptops/Tablets and suitable DI's really quick), which is kind of moot if you know how to "handle" guitar gear (most entry level guitarists don't, so the module that offers a better sound "out of the box", wins).
So why are you using Behringer Gear? Aren't you better off with investing more money?!
Simply because I can, because I want to, because I am always on a tight budget as freelancer.
Summed up in one sentence.
A couple of examples:
In the mid to late 90ies, at the end of my school days, I bought my first mixing console out of hard earned pocket money, which was the MX2004A. People at the music store were always being like "invest 200 bucks more, get a Mackie at least - this gear is sh*t". I didn't have the funds at the time, neither was I really aware of the (by now great) concept of second hand gear or distributors that offered discounts. We have 2014 now, and this console is currently my playback/monitor console (thinking of getting a smaller one actually). it survived several moves, it survived a glass of water across the console, and it survived heavy abuse with feedback loops. I've seen and worked with other mixing consoles where the "surviving" part didn't necessarily apply - and they were easily in the 20-40k range.
I needed to expand at some point due to the hardware synths I was using (some consider Yamaha and E-MU cheap/crap as well), so I upped to the 2442A. Always thought "over-dimensioned". This one is currently my recording console. And actually another Mackie type clone - at a fraction of the price (the next higher console, the MX8000, was a 1:1 clone of the Mackie 24/8).
Is it noisy? Hell yeah - every analog gear is noisy if you don't treat it like you should. But hey, it's got character - it's 15 years old by now, and still working as well btw.
My main ADC/DAC is an Ultramatch 2496 SRC.
I picked that one up s/h (second hand) from somebody that gave it away for more than half price of the MSRP, with the comment "I dug around the internet, people told me this module is crap - so I went with a 300quick expensive SPDIF converter - and to me, my CDs do sound better now". The typical (ignorant) "golden ears" argument, yet he listened to the music at an insane volume.
The user didn't know what he had in his hands. This ADC/DAC is capable of converting sample rates between 32kHz and 96kHz, it is a "codebreaker", and it has ton of connectivity possibilities. A similar module like that easily costs around 2000 EUR with only a fraction of the features. With the Ultramatch, I connected my Sony MiniDisk drive, my Tascam DAT, an old compact cassette tape machine and it's acting as my main ADC/DAC until I can afford a suitable 8in/8out module (not highest priority at the moment in my studio environment, that's mainly build on ITB mixing - not extensive multitrack recording).
I love using this device, because I can back up DAT's and MD's with the infamous "copy" bit, which prevents digital copies from device to device. That alone was totally worth it to me (and my clients!). Not to mention that I can SRC from 44/48kHz (playback) to 96kHz (record) at will if I want to back up a MD or a DAT tape.
And even if this thing has a measured noise floor of -104dBFS (to some, this is too high - yet a lot of modern "emulations" have a noise floor way up until -50dBFS!) - it's still an outstanding ADC/DAC. No need to pull an argument about it.
I could tell more stories about why I got the CT100 Cable Tester (which is IMO an essential tool as AE), or the Truth Series (I got them because my passive speaker environment constantly failed on me, I read a lot of positive reviews, they were fairly balanced, IMO better sounding than the HS80's, fair priced - easy to repair), the B2 Pro microphone (3 different characteristics, LC, pad filter, large membrane!).
I think you kind of get what I'm aiming here...
In short - i got these devices because I wanted to, and because they offered me a lot for my invested funds.
i.e., the B2 Pro offers several characteristics that you'd usually spend several hundred Euro separately. Yet I only paid about 180EUR while it was still available. It's a great all-round microphone that can't be ignored. Even if I have to frequency compensate if I want to have a "flat frequency" response like the infamous AKG C414 (which I find way too overused and overpriced!). We checked that at a mic shootout at an audio engineering school - and blind A/B tests resulted in no definite selection after the frequency compensation (to those interested, I might recommend to watch videos by Ethan Winer, who's stabbing at the same topic).
So... Secret Treasures - the "good stuff".
Sadly, these "treasures" are slowly dying out. The B2 for example was discontinued. It's still not clear if the Behringer Control series will continue to be available once the X-Touch controllers really hit the market. Just to mention two IMO great products out of the house Behringer.
"But sir, you could have really gotten away better with investing more money - at least on the speakers, which is also better for your reputation! Your ARC license was as expensive as the speakers alone, no?!"
Let me tell you something about the concept of "more expensive speakers = better sound":
A speaker only sounds as good as the room as it is placed in.
How it is placed also has a huge influence to that equation. Something you can never "test" at a store, or through online shops - you always have to test that in your environment.
My room is acoustically treated. Not perfect, but treated nonetheless. I am working in a 17sqm room, that is also designed to be a living room. I could have gone for any type of speaker: Adam (people swear upon Adam), Tannoy (still like the passive Reveal series), Yamaha, KRK. You know... everything that is "better than Behringer", right?
I went for the TRUTH series not only because of the raving positive reviews I've read, but also due to the price/deal balance. I mean... what good does it do if the speakers sound like crap in your room, you invested several thousand euros on them and you can't even set up any compensation EQ? So I rather went with a balanced, to some "too consumer" oriented speaker set. And you know what, I mix on them, I master on them, I enjoy movies with them (was recently blown away by the sound design of "How to Train your Dragon" on these speakers, can't wait to hear "Godzilla 2014" on them).
These speakers are measured in with both Room EQ Wizard (placement) and IK Multimedia ARC. And yes, I paid my fair amount for this software. But this is really only adding the final touch.
To get back on the quote I posted above... I really don't understand why people hang themselves up on what gear you use. If you know it's limitations, and use them to your advantage - does it really matter?
Does that make you a worse musician if you use a M-Audio Keystation over an AXIOM or even a Doepfer weighted keyboard? Does it make you a worse guitarist if you pick up a Fender clone and give it away to "set up" and only spend like 1/3rd of the price instead of getting a real Fender that only sounds slightly better in comparison?
Does our gear define us?
Or do we define us what we do with out gear?
I still hear the ringing argument from the old days - even today:
"You're not using ProTools, you're not using Waves - you're not a professional".
This whole argument stopped to work years ago. The day the "free plugin market" took off around the turn of the century. Where gear got more than affordable. I still remember where people told me in the face "you're not an engineer with your gear", and I've proven them time and time again that even with second hand, low budget or even free gear, you can create just as outstanding content than with investing several thousand euros.
I can go to less than ideal setup "studios", sit down and start to tickle out even more of their production.
Why?
Because I learned how to use these tools.
And I've been to both sides.
Where others need a multi FX device to get the sound they want, I pick up a modular environment and basic modules. I might take 2-3 clicks more to get there, but I get to the same results. Sometimes at a fraction of the money involved.
Where people start arguments about "speakers" and "the more expensive, the better", I can sit down at the rig, maybe with a reference track in hand and start working. You might throw your hands up in despair, but I worked for years on passive, plain 8" consumer speakers (frequency corrected). And I created outstanding mixes with it.
Summed up - I know my way around things. I can work with pretty much anything.
Yet people hang themselves up on stupid arguments, specific used gear (or the one you "have to" use), old homepages and what have you.
So what does that make "me" (you as person) actually?!
This is a question that doesn't need an answer in here, but something that you should ask yourself.
Not bad, cheap.. a bit noisy... But it's not so important about the stuff which is used. Behringer has not such a good reputation because they have copied a lot of stuff and often the quality was not so good. But I heard also good things about newer stuff, so if people use Behringer, why not?
