Hardware synths - something out of the ordinary?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
I think I've narrowed it down to a Prophet 12 or a Studio Electronics Code:
http://sxpro.co.uk/studio-electronics-code-2/
the nice thing about the Code is I can buy the cheapest 2 voice model (although still a lot more than the Prophet) and add voices (and other filter types) gradually (and relatively cheaply).
http://sxpro.co.uk/studio-electronics-code-2/
the nice thing about the Code is I can buy the cheapest 2 voice model (although still a lot more than the Prophet) and add voices (and other filter types) gradually (and relatively cheaply).
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- KVRAF
- 5139 posts since 27 Jun, 2004
Prophet 12's filter is OK, but I hate the oscillators' sound. I'd put it like this: it's very easy to make a Prophet 12 sound bad, and the only really usable sounds are those in "sweet spots" that can be found here and there. It's very hard to make a CODE sound bad, no matter what you do. You could use a very narrow pulse waveform for one of the oscillators, modulate it with another, modulated pulse waveform, modulate all of that with a noise source, and it would still sound awesome. So someone might say Prophet 12 also has lots of stuff to modulate and that it's "not comparable". I say the main thing that's not comparable is that those oscillators are just mostly useless and it's impossible take the "plastic" that holds them together out of them. And the extra filters you can add with CODE don't just "add flavor", they can define the entire synth's sound and make it work nicer for different things, it's one of the main reasons I love my little modular setup.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
tbh I would love a modular for the experimental aspects and ability to keep expanding it, but would hate the lack of polyphony or patch memory - I think that's pretty much what I'm looking for - something with a lot of scope for sound shaping but patch memory and polyphony. I guess the Prophet seemed like the closest you could get to that level of modulation but I have demo'd it twice now, today I demo'd the desktop version (didn't like the endless rotary action though), and while I liked it I don't know if I liked it enough to drop 2 grand on it. Problem is I can't demo a CODE but it looks like it doesn't have the range of modulation you can get from the P12 and only 2 oscs. So still not sure.
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- KVRAF
- 5139 posts since 27 Jun, 2004
There are some unique things that can be done with 3 well-featured VCOs, but that's mostly with modular synths. The most obvious usage with this kind of synths is just simple multiple octave mixing. Sadly yes, outside of modular, there are hardly any polyphonic or even monophonic synths which have 3 VCOs. With most synths that have 3 VCOs, you hardly have any options for using them together, like syncing two of them and routing the output to the FM input of the third VCO AND routing the third VCO's output to one of the synced VCOs' FM input.
What a synth like CODE, with two VCOs but also a "sub osc", 3 envelopes, 3 LFOs and lots of routing options has over a synth like Prophet 12, is great "flexibility" of sound shaping. You can twist those VCOs to death in lots of ways and they would always react gracefully. The range of actually usable sounds from those two oscillators and different filter types is huge, as opposed to Prophet 12 with its 4 oscillators that crap out before they get a chance to give anything really good, and a filter that's only OK (and yes, that's -my- opinion, anyone who doesn't like it).
If I had to buy a non-modular synth, I wouldn't buy a polyphonic synth ("layering" recordings is fine for me), but I wouldn't know which monophonic synth to buy either, because none has anything close to the combination of envelope, VCO and filter sound and features I want. It's too bad. I would love something like that. I would love a Mono/Poly, for example, but to maintain one is hell, and I just don't want to handle that. Oh well.
What a synth like CODE, with two VCOs but also a "sub osc", 3 envelopes, 3 LFOs and lots of routing options has over a synth like Prophet 12, is great "flexibility" of sound shaping. You can twist those VCOs to death in lots of ways and they would always react gracefully. The range of actually usable sounds from those two oscillators and different filter types is huge, as opposed to Prophet 12 with its 4 oscillators that crap out before they get a chance to give anything really good, and a filter that's only OK (and yes, that's -my- opinion, anyone who doesn't like it).
If I had to buy a non-modular synth, I wouldn't buy a polyphonic synth ("layering" recordings is fine for me), but I wouldn't know which monophonic synth to buy either, because none has anything close to the combination of envelope, VCO and filter sound and features I want. It's too bad. I would love something like that. I would love a Mono/Poly, for example, but to maintain one is hell, and I just don't want to handle that. Oh well.
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Claudio Monteverdi
- KVRAF
- 14985 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
I'd second the Solaris if you have the money, which it seems you do.Fernando Carvalho wrote:Prophet12
Modulus 002
Solaris
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
I did consider it - I had the Scope version for years till my Pulsar card died on me. It sounded great but was pretty flaky as well and patches took ages to load. Maybe the hardware version is better but I'm inclined towards something that has some real analog components I think.
- KVRAF
- 14985 posts since 26 Jun, 2006 from San Francisco Bay Area
To be honest, the CODE is great but... out of the ordinary? I guess it depends on what your "ordinary" is.aMUSEd wrote:tbh I would love a modular for the experimental aspects and ability to keep expanding it, but would hate the lack of polyphony or patch memory - I think that's pretty much what I'm looking for - something with a lot of scope for sound shaping but patch memory and polyphony. I guess the Prophet seemed like the closest you could get to that level of modulation but I have demo'd it twice now, today I demo'd the desktop version (didn't like the endless rotary action though), and while I liked it I don't know if I liked it enough to drop 2 grand on it. Problem is I can't demo a CODE but it looks like it doesn't have the range of modulation you can get from the P12 and only 2 oscs. So still not sure.
I've heard demos of the Prophet 12 sounding great, and I've heard it sounding kind of bad as well. I'm not sure DSI digital oscs are for me. While I like my MoPho, I never warmed up to the Evolver. Still, the P12 did sound a lot better when it was sounding good. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't spend the cash they're asking for it new though, just because I don't think it's for me.
I think the issue you might be coming up to is that for "out of the ordinary" you already own some of the best. Also, you're living at a time when software has caught up with hardware and in many ways exceeded it. Is there a hardware synth that can match Padshop Pro? One that's got the wavetable import features of Serum? The nearly infinite flexibility of Bazille? No.
So, again I'd point to the Solaris. Every demo I've heard of it was great and it seems like the top of the food chain in terms of digital synths. Worth $4100 if you already have a Virus TI? Not sure. Too out of my price range to do the research.
Here's something though. What about a Fizmo? It's for sure out of the ordinary and in your price range. You'd have some money left over you could get a fully loaded E-MU Commandstation. The noise you could make with the combo is pretty amazing. Maybe even look at a Novation Ultranova. I was considering one before I got the Snow.
Zerocrossing Media
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
4th Law of Robotics: When turning evil, display a red indicator light. ~[ ●_● ]~
- KVRAF
- 25386 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I've never tried the Code... but I spent some hours with the Prophet and I agree about the sweet spots. The majority of sounds just didn't do it for me... and here and there I would find something I liked but it was usually when pushing the filters. The Osc's are not appealing to me cause they have a digital edge and not in a way I like... and the filters are only okay.Shy wrote:Prophet 12's filter is OK, but I hate the oscillators' sound. I'd put it like this: it's very easy to make a Prophet 12 sound bad, and the only really usable sounds are those in "sweet spots" that can be found here and there. It's very hard to make a CODE sound bad, no matter what you do. You could use a very narrow pulse waveform for one of the oscillators, modulate it with another, modulated pulse waveform, modulate all of that with a noise source, and it would still sound awesome. So someone might say Prophet 12 also has lots of stuff to modulate and that it's "not comparable". I say the main thing that's not comparable is that those oscillators are just mostly useless and it's impossible take the "plastic" that holds them together out of them. And the extra filters you can add with CODE don't just "add flavor", they can define the entire synth's sound and make it work nicer for different things, it's one of the main reasons I love my little modular setup.
I like the Pro2 more than the Prophet.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Luckily I found a really great deal on an expanded Z1 on Ebay today and won the bid:fmr wrote:A good option (an unfairly underrated synth, IMO)... but I thought you were thinking more about analogue.aMUSEd wrote: Actually maybe I should look out for a used Z1?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/191357161716? ... fresh=true
just got to pick it up now (other side of the country unfortunately but that's what the seller wants - still worth it)
- KVRAF
- 2822 posts since 14 Feb, 2001 from What do you care? :)
Have fun with the Z1! It's an oldie but a goodie, imo. Good too that you found an expanded one. It if turns out that you don't like it I'm sure you can sell it again (also because it's expanded). But it's a pretty well thought out synth, built like a tank, and can still do some cool sounds, again, imo. (This is KVR so I feel like I need to say YMMV just to cover my opinion) But anyway:
Available on iTunes, Amazon, etc.
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
It's the physical modelling aspect I'm most interested in - the MOSS engine is amazing - but it also does Phase and cross modulation and has a comb filter so sounds very flexible.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... orgz1.html
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... orgz1.html
- KVRAF
- 2822 posts since 14 Feb, 2001 from What do you care? :)
Yes, I know that it's a physical modeling synth. I fell in love with the Z1 years ago when I first saw it a a local music shop. The sound is very animated and alive.
I like SOS reviews because they always seem to actually know what they're talking about. It is indeed very flexible and I think you made a good choice. I think it will be worth the drive to pick it up rather than shipping because it's pretty heavy. Congratulations!
I like SOS reviews because they always seem to actually know what they're talking about. It is indeed very flexible and I think you made a good choice. I think it will be worth the drive to pick it up rather than shipping because it's pretty heavy. Congratulations!
Available on iTunes, Amazon, etc.
- KVRAF
- 25386 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I've had a Z1 for years... I use it as a midi controller. I hardly use the synth part cause I find all the menu diving frustrating for creating my own sounds. The synth engine is excellent, but I'm used to the ready accessibility of the VST world. There might be some kind of on screen editor on the PC but I did not find one for the Mac.aMUSEd wrote:It's the physical modelling aspect I'm most interested in - the MOSS engine is amazing - but it also does Phase and cross modulation and has a comb filter so sounds very flexible.
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/1997_ar ... orgz1.html
There are enough controls that it is okay for basic tweaking of existing sounds.
It makes a fine controller... X/Y pad, 2 pedal inputs, good midi implementation etc...
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
MidiQuest seems to offer it but I have no idea if it works well - I have tried the demo before ages ago on Windows and it was hopeless but maybe the Mac version works better?
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 35263 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Actually this seems a lot cheaper and would probably run fine off my Netbook via a midi interface:
http://www.iax-software.com/index.html
(has some patches to download too )
Then again maybe I could put together a controller template in Lemur on my iPad?
Do you know if it will run patches created for the Oasys or is it too different? (I was wondering about the Harm Visser patches)
http://www.iax-software.com/index.html
(has some patches to download too )
Then again maybe I could put together a controller template in Lemur on my iPad?
Do you know if it will run patches created for the Oasys or is it too different? (I was wondering about the Harm Visser patches)