14 years multitracking in DAW's - bye computer!

[Wormhelmet]

Bought a used mv-8800. Upgraded, cleaned up, skinned, now focused on learning it's ins and outs. It's deep and does what I need.

Long story short - Ableton Live for last 9 years with a grip of plugins. Previous DAWs - FL, Acid Pro, Cubase, Cubasis, Cakewalk.
Controllers - 49 key, padKontrol, launchpad, nanoKontrol. Various interfaces starting in 2000 with Tascam US428 and ending with a focusrite. Started with win 98 and ended with win 7.

Updates, drivers, USB limitations even with powered hubs, started mixing and matching Arturia Minibrute, Blue Lantern Salamander Modular, M-Audio Venom, and my Waldorf Blofeld with software stuff and...

Got tired of flaky drivers, windows updates knocking stuff around, virtual midi cables and all the other stuff that goes with complex setups.

I use an iPad and various iOS music apps still and quite frequently. I can still sample iPad output into MV, so no loss there.

I wanted an MPC. I found the Roland MV series samplers. Found a too good to pass up mv-8800 on eBay and put the computer away. Real midi cables to my other hardware now. I can do pattern based, linear, drum grid recording and programming. Slower than a PC on load times, but rock solid and less hassles. Does multi sampling, I can hook up my Venom synth for a controller or use the built in 16 pad grid I upgraded with MPC Stuff new MV series pads in Blue. I love drum samplers and sequencers. This one still let's me hook up Monitor and Mouse to use on a giant screen if I want or use the built in 5" screen. I had a 19" Monitor still lying around I hooked up.

It's deep in abilities with great built in COSM fx and a built in Bass Synth programmable with two oscillators, lfo's, adsr's, and fx too.

It uses memory well. Does Mixing and Mastering. In short, it's focused.

Current Hardware now:

Blofeld
Venom
Salamander
Minibrute
RM1x
ST-224 sampler
SH-32
MV-8800

Coming soon - Virus (used)

Crazy to go all hardware in this day and age, but I wanted a change.
Think I might get Reason still for computer but on the fence about it and it's a secondary thought because I never tried it. All setups and DAW's have something amiss about them, just like hardware. But mine is out of production and has no more updates to it! It is what it is and can't be looking for that next new thing to make it better. Less to think about. It gets no updates to knock out features right when you have everything setup just right.

Besides, it's just little ol me doing the music making and not recording other people or bands or anything complex like that, so this serves my purpose.

Long live hardware music gear! Can't say it's going to be better for sure, but more importantly - I get bored easy and new tools sometimes give me new inspirations to churn out a song in my snail pace way. So this is new and I get to put the computer away for a little bit until I tire of this new toy. Have always loved my hardware sequencers though. MC-303, MC-307, RM1x, SU-700. I've played around with a few and prior to the year 2000 was doing just fine with Quasimidi Polymorph, MC-303, SU-700, EX-800, my guitar, and a 37 key mini controller. Recording everything into the SU-700 as samples and remixing it all into songs stored on Zip disks.

Kinda back to the old type setup pre-computer. I'm having fun learning it anyway.

[Jim Y]

Sure you don't really want an Atari ST?
You can get TFT screen adapters and SSD for them these days.
Not joke/sarcasm - it's still a valid platform for some.

I prefer recording/sequencing in hardware MT then finishing off and exporting in the PC.

[Numanoid]

Bought a used mv-8800. Upgraded, cleaned up, skinned, now focused on learning it's ins and outs. It's deep and does what I need.

Looks like a computer screen to me



Do the kids these daye even know what is CD ?

[mztk]

Sure you don't really want an Atari ST?
You can get TFT screen adapters and SSD for them these days.
Not joke/sarcasm - it's still a valid platform for some.

I prefer recording/sequencing in hardware MT then finishing off and exporting in the PC.

ST with TFT is brilliant
veeeery slow compared to PC but great fun and really creative, gets you right
back into cubase, proper.

and i missed the auction on one of those mv8800s, i was watching it, and nobody else
bid, i could have got it for 10quid or something. seen some MPC defectors posting
about them. you'd just have to keep it on all the time to avoid the load time, it loads
tbe entire setup, doesn't it? i hadn't heard of it at the time or i'd have been all over it.
mind you, the rs7000 does look easier.(oh, i've just seen that photo with the monitor
and mouse...)

i've been finding the PC really uninspiring since i started poking buttons again.
i still don't finish anything, and set up a few bits temporarily. and i've become
obsessed about boxes again - ooh that looks like a nice cardboard box, perfect
for (device). all the old vices are returning.

[Wormhelmet]

Sure you don't really want an Atari ST?
You can get TFT screen adapters and SSD for them these days.
Not joke/sarcasm - it's still a valid platform for some.

I prefer recording/sequencing in hardware MT then finishing off and exporting in the PC.

A good platform is a good platform, right? I know some guys that still use Atari's, trackers, or just plain step sequencing with the one knob per function type sequencers. Whatever works for people is what should be used. The MV has a great sequencer and multiple types, so I think it will work out fine. After as long as I have been on windows PC, I think a break was order. I like it so far.

Last time I mixed all my Ableton stuff with 4 pieces of hardware, I hooked my mixer out to my iPad and recorded one stereo track in Meteor. This one I could do the same or just hook mixer outs back into the MV inputs, record and master, then burn to cd. SU-700 was easy too, but that old method of truncating samples was kind of time consuming.
Good fun though.

[Wormhelmet]

Bought a used mv-8800. Upgraded, cleaned up, skinned, now focused on learning it's ins and outs. It's deep and does what I need.

Looks like a computer screen to me



Do the kids these daye even know what is CD ?

That it does. Hard to believe it wasn't long ago these sold for thousands.
Not exactly portable either. It's kind of a beast in size.

[AlesisVi61]

There have been times where I've been so fed up and overwhelmed by computer hassles,that...at the very least,I had wanted a hardware workstation(in addition to a PC)...just as a creative escape,such as a Roland FA-06.
I refuse to buy anything used and I wanted keys with my hardware sequencer,so the Roland seemed ideal...but the key-bed's on budget keyboards are always garbage...so I never took the plunge back into hardware.

It requires an insane amount of research,trial and error...to come up with the right formula for the ideal computer configuration and I must say,that in the end...there is absolutely no substitute for the deep customization and low cost of a computer DAW and when you find the right set up...all the aggravation was well worth it.
Before I got into computer music just 10 years ago,I had transitioned from 17 years of hardware recording and I am so glad I made the change,because I had learned a staggering amount of much needed experience and achieved so much that would have been utterly impossible to do(just by virtue of monetary means).

After everything I had gone through to get fluent in computer music,I can't fathom giving it all up for hardware.

[Wormhelmet]

It really was less hassle and more boredom than anything. After 14 years on DAW's, it's not like I'm gonna forget how to use a DAW anytime soon.

MV is very focused. Hardware in general is very focused. It takes more effort it seems. Very easy to route audio/midi in a DAW and throw a bunch of plugins and VST instruments, but it does not have the same feel as doing it via hardware. Kind of like using my minibrute or modular that has no patch memory. Even using something like my MS20ic controller has a different feel than twisting knobs on my real hardware. Maybe it's more of connecting the thought of virtuals vs hardware that makes the difference because sound wise, most people aren't going to know anything about those differences listening to the music, but the creation process for me sometimes takes a whopping kick in the pants with something different to make it fun again. That's what it's all about for me anyway. If someone likes the music, great. It's the creation and my own enjoyment that is number one though.

It's no different really than switching DAW's (which many people I've seen here jump from one to another or use several) and learning a new workflow. I've enjoyed Ableton, Acid Pro, Cubase, Cubasis, FL, Cakewalk. No reason I won't enjoy this for awhile.

[Shy]

I'll tell you what I think. First, I'm glad if you really are glad with your new setup, although I believe you'll get tired of it soon. I'm glad because I know how important it is to have something you're really comfortable with, which enables you to be creative. I really have no idea how you could have enjoyed all those hosts. Not that I don't believe you, I just have no idea how that's possible, because I've found all of them except Cubase utterly idiotic in workflow, when it comes to sequencing. And I don't know how you haven't been able to reach a point where you have a computer setup you're much happier with compared to any limited DAW like MV8800, which I think is really much worse in every way than a basic, puny PC with Cubase (and not even a recent version) + audio interface + a USB to MIDI interface or few, and a MIDI controller (some buttons, sliders, knobs).

I don't find the huge limitations, or "focus", good in any way, and I don't find an environment like Cubase overabundant or overwhelming at all. I mostly just use basic MIDI scoring and audio track recording, almost exclusively with hardware instruments / processors. It couldn't possibly be any quicker, simpler and more "fun". I've used enough hardware sequencers to know just how annoying and mostly slow (a huge inspiration killer) they all are compared to this, at least for me. Copy and paste? Go back and forth a lot and shift things around? You know that taking just that part at 3:30 to 3:48 and replacing the part at 1:02 to 1:20 with it would really make a small but important difference. Let's do it, it takes a few seconds. Quickly edit note length accurately, and velocity, pitch bend, expression, various controllers? All with perfect visual feedback? I think hardware "DAWs" or sequencers suck and Cubase doesn't, but that's me. And let's forget piano rolls for a while, let's say you just want a great and you know, inspirational, step sequencer. Well, I'll just use that absolutely excellent Modulys plugin.

I don't see anything limiting, confusing or less "immediate" about the PC setup + hardware synths, effects processors, etc. I think it works perfectly and definitely better than any overly limited and obsolete PC-like DAW, non-PC-like DAW, or old-school sequencer. I use hardware instruments almost exclusively nowadays, but if there is something I don't and never will miss, it's hardware sequencers. Step sequencers can be fun, and there are some nice touchscreen ones. That's all.

I don't mean any of this as an argument or debate, I just don't care to convince anyone, I just want to say that I find such hardware much worse in every way and that I don't get comments from people who say they're "tired of the computer", thinking they'd be able to get their inspiration from using tools that I find much worse. If someone finds them better (although I can't see how), and it actually helps them, then that's great.

[Firebird]

Bought a used mv-8800. Upgraded, cleaned up, skinned, now focused on learning it's ins and outs. It's deep and does what I need.

Looks like a computer screen to me



Do the kids these daye even know what is CD ?

I wonder if you can add a second monitor, a larger monitor or do you have to only use the Roland version.

From my experience owning some of these stand alone systems, they tend to become outdated fairly quickly.
Also, what if you wanted to add a UAD system?

Many questions....

[mztk]

Shy: all absolutely true, of course. but you can still get tired of being a
slave to your computer. nice to switch it off some time. have a total
holiday away from computers, it really is refreshing, not just musically.

[Shy]

Most definitely, it's really important. The only "smart" things I do with my "smartphone" are reading e-mail and browsing a couple of websites a few times a week, and listening to music. Whenever I'm outside, I often feel as if I'm the only person in the area who's not enslaved to a computer, when I stand or walk plainly among people who are glued to their smartphones. And ironically, exactly such people are so sure of themselves when they tell me there's no way I would last with no computer access. They either believe I'm like them or that since I work in the computer field, I actually like computers. I don't, I only like mine, and I couldn't be happier away from computers for weeks.

Not having access to my music making tools is what I do have a bit of a problem with, but that's not really a computer access problem, because what I really miss is access to my hardware musical instruments. I can just use a laptop with some plugins, for drafts, but that's not what I want. So when I'm on vacation (hardly ever, gotta have one soon), I just disconnect from all of that, and the initial worry that I'd feel bad without my music stuff disappears after a little time away from usual activities.

If the situation was that a certain portable instrument other than a laptop with plugins (some synth/sequencer combo or whatever) was so favorable by me that it was all I needed to enjoy music making, then I wouldn't have liked having it with me when I was "away from the computer", because that would then become "my computer", which I depend on. So then, I wouldn't have achieved anything as far as staying away from tools that I normally depend on goes. "The computer" can really be anything.

[Wormhelmet]

Haha - no need to freak out about no computer. It's pretty fun.

[Aiynzahev]

I have a brief outing with the Roland MV8000. I hated it's guts. Slow, clunky, un-intuitive. I loved the MPC 2500 though.

The unsettling thing is how far behind hardware sequencers are in terms of ease of use and integration IMO. I wish I could try the Cirklon, but the whole hardware set-up is too expensive for me right now.

You are definitely not crazy to do it though, it has huge benefits to creativity in my experience.

[Wormhelmet]

I looked at the 2500's, but the multiple sequence type options plus multi sampling drew new in. Not to mention built in bass synth and 480 ppq resolution. It's more like the 4000 or 5000, but I still might get a 1000 with jjos which is essentially the same engine as the 2500 but smaller form factor. Chunky is a good way to describe the MV. Not sure about unintuitive as I haven't had to crack the manual too much yet in experimenting with it, but I'm sure as I need to find more features, I'll be RTFM'ing it more. It's very playable to me. More so than Geist with my padKontrol. Definitely slower than Geist on my PC. Geist and padKontrol never had that hardware feel to me though which is entirely in my mind the way I think about it, more than actual use. It's the knowing I'm on a PC still bit.

No one said musicians weren't a weird bunch, and I'll claim my weirdness for thinking about hardware feel differently. The clunkiness is part of the appeal.

Feels a bit old school to me. All very much part of the appeal. Geist remains on the PC along with Ableton if I get sick of it. Having refurbished it essentially myself for very little, I can always get a profit selling it if I tire of it. It was very reasonable compared to MPC prices.