The Future of VA hardware synths?

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Speculation: What will happen to the hardware VA synth market if the polyphonic analogue synths will get cheaper and thus be able to compete with VAs?

With DSI Tetra, Korg, minilogue or the fact the you can get a used Juno 106 for 750-800$ we are on our way.

At least it seems that it may be harder to brand them as "analogue modeling" synths, when you can get the real thing so cheap. But what about branding them by their own sound characteristics and how should this be done, e.g. is it the supersaw that makes a VA a VA?

What do you think?

(and plz don't confuse me with facts. I am asking for opinions, speculations and divinations, thank you)

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Analog synths are pretty boring. You get much more variety from a VA and they are fun to be around. Most VA's smell nice and the blue ones look good in the sunlight.

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Digital synth must provide clear advantges over analog stuff to be atractive:

- Lot of polyphony
- Good UI
- Effects.
- Arpegiator/sequencers
- Lots of options for waveforms.
- Flexible architecture.
- Cheap in relation to analog

The Arturia Origin was a good try, but still expensive. I think something with as good UI as the nord lead 3 plus the flexibility of a blofeld would be a real winner.

I think VA stilll have a place in ste up that need a lot of polyphony, but the current ones are expensive (Nord lead 4) , don't have great UI for its power (Virus ti), are limited (system 1), have crappy KB and UI (Kingkorg), not large keyboard and no multitimbrality (Ultranova).

I just don't feel manufactuers are playing to the advantages that VA naturally has over analog.
dedication to flying

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I'd still really like to see an Alesis Ion mkII.

Or a half off Black Friday sale on the Solaris.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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IncarnateX wrote:Speculation: What will happen to the hardware VA synth market if the polyphonic analogue synths will get cheaper and thus be able to compete with VAs?
I think the battle will be done in the UI arena. When Nord announced their A1 pretty much everyone dropped their jaws on how limited it was compared with other Nords (and the competition). Total failure was the dire prediction. Today users are raving about how great it is to use. I think that one-knob per function is great, but also an oversimplification. You can place functionality in a lower level without giving it a dedicated knob as long as it's logical and clearly shown. Roland for example is absolutely terrible with this. They love to hide extra oscillators and modulators by shift-clicking buttons/knobs that no one would never be able to figure out on their own.

But it also depends on who you are trying to sell it to. An analog synth like the Minilogue or the much hated Akai Rhythm Wolf will always find a crowd because of attractive pricing.

/C
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rod_zero wrote:Digital synth must provide clear advantges over analog stuff to be atractive:

- Lot of polyphony
- Good UI
- Effects.
- Arpegiator/sequencers
- Lots of options for waveforms.
- Flexible architecture.
- Cheap in relation to analog

The Arturia Origin was a good try, but still expensive. I think something with as good UI as the nord lead 3 plus the flexibility of a blofeld would be a real winner.

I think VA stilll have a place in ste up that need a lot of polyphony, but the current ones are expensive (Nord lead 4) , don't have great UI for its power (Virus ti), are limited (system 1), have crappy KB and UI (Kingkorg), not large keyboard and no multitimbrality (Ultranova).

I just don't feel manufactuers are playing to the advantages that VA naturally has over analog.
Quite true... I guess that hardware manufacturers have given up VA, because they are unable to do that right to compete analogue ... as you noted with good usable UI, decent polyphony, multi-timbrality, and advanced functionality including mpe support. I would still prefer compact desktop 64... 128 voice multi-timbral VA with decent effects, clever UI and mpe support instead of software, but I guess Virus TI/Blofeld desktops will remain the only choice for multi-timbral VA in compact format. I doubt that any of hardware synth manufacturers will ever be able to produce something more advanced :/

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Given that the novation circuit is two fully featured VA synths and a drum machine as well as an amazing sequencer/controller for £249 I'm pretty sure that field can still compete on price vs analogue.

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The question is will analogue be necessary at all within the next 5-10 yrs given the way VA has developed in the last 10 yrs? To my ears the jdxi and even the jdxa digital side sounds much nicer and the boutique range only need a bit more poly and maybe an analogue filter to match the originals.

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IncarnateX wrote:Speculation: What will happen to the hardware VA synth market if the polyphonic analogue synths will get cheaper and thus be able to compete with VAs?
Well, it's a question worth asking. VA - virtual analog. So what's the point when, as you suggest, AA - actual analog is so readily available and thanks to the likes of korg hitting shelves at consumer friendly prices.

First thing that will keep VA relevant in my mind is price, bang-for-buck ratio. With a not-to-be-sneezed at price difference but comparable sound, VA stays relevant.

Second thing is to perhaps rethink the whole 'virtual analog' synth (i.e subtractive) architecture, and fully embrace their digital status... so put out and/or combine more traditionally digital-centric synthesis units... digital fm, phase distortion, granular synthesis, but with an abstracted interface and/or heavy use of macro knobs so that it is as usable, performable as a subtractive style synth ... and perhaps integrate a little analog circuitry in the signal path, a lowpass and highpass filter perhaps while basic in the grand scheme of things can go a long way to sweetening up a digital sound or rounding off any harshness, even if the filters are more-or-less fully open. a couple tubes, ala the second generation of electribes. a basic analog compressor or distortion. not neccessary of course, but like I said - a small analogue concession like this goes a long way - not just in sound but in marketing too, and this is essentially a marketing question.

Third thing is build quality, but I mean the type of build quality that is the realm of Clavia/Nord ... it's almost unfair to bring their gear up in such conversations because make no mistake, the measure of their success is absolutely their rock solid, world tour level of build quality. Every single Clavia/Nord instrument without fail is built to withstand daily live performance at the highest level of physical demands. The resurgence of analog in the market hasn't put a single dent into Clavia's market I am sure. So if a company is heavily invested in VA technology, and is feeling the sting from affordable AA's ... well if I were them I would start looking into the manufacturing process and start to market my gear on it's almost indestructable build quality - couple that with the reliability of VA, and serious touring pros will always be a viable market.


that's all pretty idealistic though. i figure the best bet is to hit that good bang-for-buck ratio.


imo, ymmv, god bless america.

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duncanm wrote:Given that the novation circuit is two fully featured VA synths and a drum machine as well as an amazing sequencer/controller for £249 I'm pretty sure that field can still compete on price vs analogue.
I just bought one of these new for $250 and free shipping. That's inexpensive for 4 drum synths and 2 6 voice poly VA synths, plus all the other cool features. They have a good PC/Mac editor now too if you want to go deeper on sounds. I don't plan on incorporating it with my existing setup. Just plan on using as a standalone fun groovebox.

I like the contrast of VA to AA (actual analog). Using blofeld and Venom for VA duties while Minibrute, 3x Mother 32's, Minilogue, Blue Lantern Salamander, and soon a Roland System 500 (backordered) cover AA duties.

The polyphony and multitimbral aspects of VA plus it's range into sounding digital, really is a good mix with AA gear.

Would like to see more boxes come out with high polyphony and 3 or more oscillators combined with analog filters. They have this now, but on the expensive side of things or low polyphony.
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duncanm wrote:Given that the novation circuit is two fully featured VA synths and a drum machine as well as an amazing sequencer/controller for £249 I'm pretty sure that field can still compete on price vs analogue.
Usually I do not think of Grooveboxes as synths, which I associate with keys, but it may be the groovebox concept that will save them, me thinks. I bought my JD-Xi because of the groove-box-with-keys concept and the unique combi of VA, Rompler, Analog, vocoder and drummachine. The more you get in there, the more tempting they become.

However the VAs need to get rid of the standard plastic look too, so I agree that we need more solid material. Compared to minilogue, the JD-Xi looks like it is bought in Toys R Us. At least the microkorg has wood panels, a step in the right direction :hihi:

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Right now an Analog poly with more than 6 voices costs no less than 2000 USD, with keyboard.

I really feel that VA could win in the 700_1500 USD bracket if they offered 61 keys, good UI and sound designs features beyond what Analog can offer.

Foro the money the NL4 is very expensive, it lost a lot of feature from the NL3.

If waldorf can offer the Blo keys for under grand I wonder what they could do at 1500.
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rod_zero wrote:Right now an Analog poly with more than 6 voices costs no less than 2000 USD, with keyboard.

I really feel that VA could win in the 700_1500 USD bracket if they offered 61 keys, good UI and sound designs features beyond what Analog can offer.

Foro the money the NL4 is very expensive, it lost a lot of feature from the NL3.

If waldorf can offer the Blo keys for under grand I wonder what they could do at 1500.
Dunno about this. I picked up the Roland FA-06 a week or so ago for ~ $1200). It's built from cheap plastic bits, doesn't have aftertouch, and the keys have a weird key feel. On the positive side of the ledger though - the sounds are fantastic, it is fully programmable, and most importantly... to me - doesn't require me to haul my MacBook around to gigs. There was plenty written up about the FAs a couple of years ago, when they came out. I don't know how it slipped past my radar. In any case - it's polyphonic (128 note), and is changing how I'll approach pure software-only synths now. To repeat though.... the sounds you can get from it, are nothing short of fantastic.

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I just watched the Isotonik video on it's Novation Circuit editor for mac or pc or as a Max for Live plugin. These actually are two full blown Nova Synths with up to 6 voice polyphony. The editor also lets you edit and design your own macros with up to 4 parameters per macro.

Two oscillators with multiple waveforms, 3 lfo's, 3 envelopes, multimode filters, modulation matrix, macros you can create.

I can't believe this was $250

It may be limited in the drums department, but it has some great sounding VA's in it.

They plan on doing more features for circuit as requests come in too. It's a little powerhouse for next to nothing.
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rod_zero wrote:...If waldorf can offer the Blo keys for under grand I wonder what they could do at 1500.
oh, yes, that's what I'd like to see as well :)
I picked up my mint 20+ voice Blofeld module for eur 270 and for me it is much more powerful that Circuit. Despite two FX limited synth engines of Circuit being quite capable as VA, honestly I haven't seen any Circuit performance video which doesn't sounds like a crap (I'm certainly not interested into distorted glitchy soundscapes). Obviously Circuit needs serious mixing and mastering before it becomes usable.

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