The Future of VA hardware synths?

[Wormhelmet]

...If waldorf can offer the Blo keys for under grand I wonder what they could do at 1500.

oh, yes, that's what I'd like to see as well
I picked up my mint 20+ voice Blofeld module for eur 270 and for me it is much more powerful that Circuit. Despite two FX limited synth engines of Circuit being quite capable as VA, honestly I haven't seen any Circuit performance video which doesn't sounds like a crap (I'm certainly not interested into distorted glitchy soundscapes). Obviously Circuit needs serious mixing and mastering before it becomes usable.

I think only two out of the ten or so videos on Circuit gave me a good idea of potential. Youtube not the best presentation, but not going to say it needs anything until I actually have mine in hand. When you release a product with certain presets, those presets might nt appeal to all, but the main reason I was swayed into buying it was that it has a full synth and macro editor, so I can make the sounds I want, not just manipulate whats already in there. I'll get it and play around before I say anything more. If it wasn't $250, I would not have bought it.

[IncarnateX]

I do wonder if Roland's strategy of "externalizing" emulation software into small hardware boxes with optional toy pianos will pay off. 4 Voice polyphony like you can achieve with minilogue or Tetra and so forth unless you are willing to double them up and pay the price accordingly.I don't think more emulations is the way forward, whether the hardware synths run the software or not. Emulations will be of lesser importance as the analog synths hits the price range.

I do like Roland's crossover concept though. A JD-Xi version 2 with a polyphonic analog synth with more OSCs instead of the limited mono synth it got now, backed up by it's VA/Rompler engines and more controls, would be more than just cool. Especially if they make it in other materials than plastic. Sweet Dreams

[duncanm]

...If waldorf can offer the Blo keys for under grand I wonder what they could do at 1500.

oh, yes, that's what I'd like to see as well
I picked up my mint 20+ voice Blofeld module for eur 270 and for me it is much more powerful that Circuit. Despite two FX limited synth engines of Circuit being quite capable as VA, honestly I haven't seen any Circuit performance video which doesn't sounds like a crap (I'm certainly not interested into distorted glitchy soundscapes). Obviously Circuit needs serious mixing and mastering before it becomes usable.

I think only two out of the ten or so videos on Circuit gave me a good idea of potential. Youtube not the best presentation, but not going to say it needs anything until I actually have mine in hand. When you release a product with certain presets, those presets might nt appeal to all, but the main reason I was swayed into buying it was that it has a full synth and macro editor, so I can make the sounds I want, not just manipulate whats already in there. I'll get it and play around before I say anything more. If it wasn't $250, I would not have bought it.

THe point of the circuit was, and still is, to a certain degree, of being able to quickly put together something 'on the go'. Even if you never intend to use the device's on board sounds, you can plug it into your daw and export the midi for the two channels and get whatever sound you want off your DAW instead. That it happened they released an update that allowed you to overwrite the onboard patches is just a rather big bonus, and you probably need to like the 'nova' sound to decide if this is a big deal for you or not. The blofeld probably excels on the multi timbral element, but you're not going to be sitting on the bus with it, as it doesn't have the sequencer element at all. What they basically have in common is that they're both sound generators, but that's about it.

[zerocrossing]

Analog synths are pretty boring. You get much more variety from a VA and they are fun to be around. Most VA's smell nice and the blue ones look good in the sunlight.

I think this is a down right silly and ignorant statement. Sure, an old synth like a Juno 6, 60 or 106 is going to look a bit simple compared to a modern VSTi, but there's a reason they're classics. They have a very iconic and great core tone. To call them boring is to miss the point... And maybe a little bit of passing the creativity responsibility to the composition catagory. If you really need to spice something like one of those vintage synths up, all you need is a modern multi effects processor.

But, OK. Sure. I too lived though the 90s, 00s and I'm still here. I love me some modulation options. Modern analogs like the Pulse 2, Analog Four and Xenophone rival VA in terms of functionality. A modern poly like the Studio Electronics Omega 8 is almost in Diva territory with it's modulation options and expandability to equip it with other filter choices. Something like the Andromeda with it's multi-timbal engine and extensive mod matrix and options is very much in the realm of modern VA.

Anyway, I think the reason we're not seeing many hardware VA in modern times is that software has really come so far. The actual sonic quality of a synth like Diversion firmly trounces a Virus TI. The only thing the TI really offers is a boat load of voices, which is not nothing especially if you're tired of upgrading your computer every 4 years. One modern VA that hasn't really received as much praise as I think it deserves is the Sonic Core XITE-1. It's a high quality PCIe audio interface with a bunch of DSP on board that run the Creamware and Scope emulations. It's expensive, but it provides a very high quality sound that is a bit better to my ears than anything Access is making and it comes with software called Scope Modular that is an expandable software module that makes the old Nord G2 look simple. I came upon it when I was looking for a modulation monster to replace my Prophet 12 that had to go due to space issues. Now that I have it I couldn't be happier. Screw that Prophet 12. It sounds like crap compared to the things I'm able to do with the stock Scope instruments. I'm about to add John Bowen's ProWave to it soon, which is like having the best Prophet 5 emulation around with the wavetable options of the old Waldorfs, and it can be integrated into Scope Modular so the architecture is basically anything you want. It's not without issues and quirks (for instance, there is no 64 bit version of Scope yet, so if you're running a 64 bit OS you'll find that Scope instruments that use samples do not work) but for what it does, it's amazing. The only downside to it, when compared to instruments like the Virus, is that it has no physical interface of it's own (it really I couldn't in any simple way due to its flexibility) so I'm now using an iPad Pro and Lemur to control things.

[Numanoid]

Speculation: What will happen to the hardware VA synth market if the polyphonic analogue synths will get cheaper and thus be able to compete with VAs?

What happend to the Analogue Market when Digital synths came along in the early 80's and offered improved patch storage and midi, and lots of other frills

It tanked for awhile, but is better than ever now. Lessons learned from history: sit on it

[IncarnateX]

a lot

Ah there you were. Would have baffled me if you did not have a comment to all this. Glad that the world still makes sense

[stillshaded]

This is an odd argument.


Price to performance ratio for analog will plateau while digital hardware will continue to improve. They're already much closer to the analog sound than they were in the 90s. If anything they are more viable now.

[IncarnateX]

They're already much closer to the analog sound than they were in the 90s.

But that is begging the question since their closeness to analog sound hardly will remain a selling point if you can have the real thing for the same price, which was my point in the OP.

[rod_zero]

While soft synths have demonstrated that they can be quite close to analog I don't think that those qualities have been used in HW VA's already. Maybe the King korg, system 1 and the boutiques but apart from that I am not that convinced by the rest.

Nevertheless as the poster above I don't think VA's strenght is how authentic they sound, personally I want to see more features and good synth engines that go beyond analog emulation.

[zerocrossing]

a lot

Ah there you were. Would have baffled me if you did not have a comment to all this. Glad that the world still makes sense

The circle is now complete.

[cryophonik]

Nevertheless as the poster above I don't think VA's strenght is how authentic they sound, personally I want to see more features and good synth engines that go beyond analog emulation.

I'll add a big phat +1 to that.

Even though I grew up on analog synths, I've never been one to care much about how "analog" a synth sounds. I simply care about how *good* a synth sounds, how deep/flexible it is, how it's laid out, how solidly constructed and playable it is, etc. Analog vs digital is low on my criteria when buying synths. That said, I've owned a few dozen analog/hybrid synths over the past decade or so and, with a few exceptions, have gotten bored of them pretty quickly.

[stillshaded]

They're already much closer to the analog sound than they were in the 90s.

But that is begging the question since their closeness to analog sound hardly will remain a selling point if you can have the real thing for the same price, which was my point in the OP.

My point is that you the real thing won't be the same price. As processing power continues to improve, you will have digital hardware synths that become more and more powerful. Higher quality sound, more polyphony, larger variety of sound.

Analogs will remain about the same price/performance. You can only cram so much analog into a box. And you can only make it so cheap. The minilogue is amazing, but it is not a given that it will be topped in its eficiency any time soon. But It is a given that all currently existing digital synths will be topped.


And my only point on the analog sound comment is that comparison to analog will always be ubiquitous. There's no escaping it. Personally I prefer when digital synths go for being unashamedly digital.

Still, when people are talking about comparing digital to analog, there is something to it. They are probably referring to analog's ability to sound good with minimal effort. It is almost impossible to make my ms20 or sh09 sound bad.

Digital is not quite there in this regard, but I think it will be eventually. And when it is, it will have a ton of advantages over analog. When this happens, I'm not so sure that analog will be as hot as it is now.

[rod_zero]

Apart from roland ACB emulations no other devloper of HW VA is showing any progress on that front. And then the synths only have 4 voices, denying the advantage digital can offer.

Nord lead 4 sounds more Analog than the 2x or 3 but still not as good as Diva.

I hope either Waldorf comes out with a blo2 with more DSP or Novation with a new Nova with improved algorythms.

[Wormhelmet]

Novation Circuit came in. They include everything. Came with batteries even.

It's a cool little device. Isotonik editor works great on my win 10 netbook. Two mininova based synths (per Novation's description) definitely in there. It's pretty flexible. Boxed up great.

I updated to latest beta firmware giving new midi features and supporting the editor without a hitch.

It is the size of an ipad pretty much and will pair with my ipad great to run some further sound mangling stuff or sequence an ipad sound module or vice-versa.

$250 was great for it. They have plans to keep adding user requests.

This scratched an itch for an ultra portable companion to my ipad stuff.

[inf0tr8r]

Circuit is the best piece of gear made in the last 5 years. I love mine, it's like a $250 Elektron. Absolutely better than the e2.

The editor is amazing too.

personally I don't find the drums limiting, they sound amazing with tweaks