Behringer D Synth - Full Analog, Eurorack compatible, No Keys, 400$

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idfpower wrote:
Albert.VST wrote:Modern manufacturing technology should bring prices down, Korg also proved this with a polyphonic synth for ~$ 500.
Agreed. It's time to cash in. The production costs have dropped, but most companies still price their stuff up. Same factories, same raw mats, just different brands labelled on. And for that alone, the price goes through the roof. It's not ok.
I think Moogs manufacturing methods are a bit different from Korg and Behringer. A buddy of mine was assembling the Moog modular reissues (and possibly the Model Ds) by hand, in Asheville, NC. Certainly, not all of their products are made that way but that kind of work is very expensive when it's done by humans. That doesn't mean much to a musician on a budget but for that reason, it's great that there are more budget conscious options which are built on a larger scale.

Smaller companies cannot afford to buy parts in the same quantities as Behringer, so they don't get the same price breaks. They can't automate as much of the manufacturing/QC process, so it's more expensive for them to make a competitive product. Modern manufacturing is an amazing thing when you are building 10,000's of units but it can be prohibitively expensive for companies who have a smaller customer base, for that reason, smaller companies have to turn to third-party contract manufacturers, in order to compete with companies who operate on a larger scale.
Often innovation comes from smaller companies, who take risks. Then, once it's been established that a new (or dormant) market segment is profitable, larger companies come in, after a lot of the risk has been sussed out. It's not bad or unethical. It's just that (in my opinion), both approaches have their necessary place in the larger ecosystem of technology.

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Big companies also innovate by sheer brute force of their capital, as Yamaha and Roland did back with digital synths in the 80's.

Behringer has the capital and know how to make more risky offerings, the DM12 was much more forward thinking than this replica. Arturia did the Matrixbrute and with their manufacturing in Chine it can be offered for 2,000 and I can bet they invested a lot in its development.

So that Behringer comes out with a Model D while it is good for many people that want one at an affordable price it doesn't represent any real push or investment in the synth market.

Imagine If behringer were interested in bringing back big Polys with VCOs, I wonder what could they offer for 2,000 USD.
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Of course, I didn't mean to diminish the interesting things Behringer did with the DM12. I was speaking more generally. Again, just trying to say that there is room in the market for companies with different approaches.

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justin3am wrote:I think Moogs manufacturing methods are a bit different from Korg and Behringer.
No doubt. But they also cater for different consumer segments. That's why this whole hysteria with B cutting into Moog's pie makes no sense to me - the guys that will prolly get the B unit would have not bought the M version for 3.5K. The only important aspect is whether it's legal or not. Everything else is just bitching for the sake of passing time.

B gets you through. Nothing more. Ppl don't buy their stuff out of shear loyalty, but because there's no alternative for the price. Haven't seen any long term B users being dissapointed by this move and dropping any support for the brand. On the other hand, I'm fairly certain the folks trash-talking them on forums were not on the verge of buying a small fortune worth of B gear when this news hit the Internet and then dropped their orders to protest.... come on :)
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Albert.VST wrote:
idfpower wrote:Here's a question: B manages to make a 1:1 clone for 400$; Moog sells the same thing for 3499$. Who's being honest & ethical? So let's drop this argument, ok...
Good point. Modern manufacturing technology should bring prices down, Korg also proved this with a polyphonic synth for ~$ 500.
The high price for 'the real Moog' makes it unreachable for many, the B price makes it at least payable for more. Moog unethical? Nah, but don't be surprised some other does take advantage of the possibilities.
I think moog are a bit like harley Davidson. If you are into motorbikes for speed, exciting driving or even racing you don't go anywhere near a harley. They are over priced, noisy, underperforming bikes.

But for those with a romantic connection to bikes riding on route 66 they are a good investment. They are pretty reliable and hold their value well and the excessive roar is great.

Behringer sell many things, but romance isn't one of them.
I believe every thread should devolve into character attacks and witch-burning. It really helps the discussion.

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ericj23 wrote:
Albert.VST wrote:
idfpower wrote:Here's a question: B manages to make a 1:1 clone for 400$; Moog sells the same thing for 3499$. Who's being honest & ethical? So let's drop this argument, ok...
Good point. Modern manufacturing technology should bring prices down, Korg also proved this with a polyphonic synth for ~$ 500.
The high price for 'the real Moog' makes it unreachable for many, the B price makes it at least payable for more. Moog unethical? Nah, but don't be surprised some other does take advantage of the possibilities.
I think moog are a bit like harley Davidson. If you are into motorbikes for speed, exciting driving or even racing you don't go anywhere near a harley. They are over priced, noisy, underperforming bikes.
Exactly. Model D especially is an exclusive product for collectors who just want to put it on a display.
For sure it's not a proposal for someone who want to seriously make music, especially for commercial purposes. It just doesn't give value for money.
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For all the fuss about the design/look of the synth, I'm a little surprised no-one has mentioned the i/o being located in the top left corner. Without right angle Jacks that's annoying on a desktop...

That being said, if they pull this off it's a beautiful thing.

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Also, I see a number of people excited about the prospect of making this poly. For me that's a bit of a waste of time if it does sound like a Minimoog.

None of the great polys have sounded like the thick, beefy D sound because it's just a bit bloated when stacked.

Consequently if you wanted to update the synth, for me things like ring mod, Osc sync or an extra LFO would be a lot more valuable than polychain.

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transmetropolitan wrote:Also, I see a number of people excited about the prospect of making this poly. For me that's a bit of a waste of time if it does sound like a Minimoog.

None of the great polys have sounded like the thick, beefy D sound because it's just a bit bloated when stacked.

Consequently if you wanted to update the synth, for me things like ring mod, Osc sync or an extra LFO would be a lot more valuable than polychain.
Moog had already offered poly-chains with their Minimoog Voyager (keyboard and the Voyager RME rack version) and also the Little Phatty + Slim Phatty so selling this option as a new feature is a bit of a stretch.

Not sure but AFAIK the newer Moogs like e.g. Sub 37 could be poly-chained too.
The big difference with the Behringer Model D is that the single units should be much cheaper so also a poly-chain will be a lot cheaper too.

Waldorf Pulse 2 and also the much older Pulse offer an option for a poly-chain too.

Besides that there is also Synapse Audio The Legend now which IMO is the best software emulation of a Minimoog so far. This could sound quite nice as a polysynth (4 voice poly mode). Anyway the included poly mode uses some specific enhancements like e.g. lower volume for each voice (compared to mono mode) slight random detuning for the voices in a chord and also has an additional adjustable stereo width setting.


Here is a video showing the use of a Slim Phatty poly-chain:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Exmrb1ce7aM

I had owned a single Slim Phatty until 2015 and played a poly-chain at Musikmesse.

Another video directly from Moog:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfPMvBxwdbg
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Armadillo wrote:Mr. Behringer mentions on a thread on Gearslutz that this is just one of many.
Apparently Behringer are working on 20 synths, with the possibility that the cheapest one with sell for as little as $49.
Yep, $49 for an analog synth . :eek:

More info here:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/electro ... st12488106

oh good, as CS01 :hihi:

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DJ Warmonger wrote: Exactly. Model D especially is an exclusive product for collectors who just want to put it on a display.
For sure it's not a proposal for someone who want to seriously make music, especially for commercial purposes. It just doesn't give value for money.
This is just not true. Some people might buy one for those reasons, but the Model D re-issue is one of the few analogue synths on the market now that offer true, brutal tone. It's not that the Model D is expensive (compared to most musical instruments it's really not), it's that most other analogue synths these days are cheap.

Furthermore. outside of the world of forums where people argue about plugins and only make electronic music that nobody hears, there are thousands of professional musicians making a very good living out of music. More than enough to justify the purchase.
Last edited by tehlord on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DJ Warmonger wrote: Exactly. Model D especially is an exclusive product for collectors who just want to put it on a display.
For sure it's not a proposal for someone who want to seriously make music, especially for commercial purposes. It just doesn't give value for money.
I know right! No music with a Model D on it has ever made a dime. :roll:
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transmetropolitan wrote:I'm a little surprised no-one has mentioned the i/o being located in the top left corner. Without right angle Jacks that's annoying on a desktop...
I assumed the output jack (and the filter in etc) where on the front in case you did integrate it into a eurorack, nice and convenient then. Maybe they're duplicated around the back too?

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i was hoping for a Model E emulation, the Model D is a bit common....

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SJ_Digriz wrote:
DJ Warmonger wrote: Exactly. Model D especially is an exclusive product for collectors who just want to put it on a display.
For sure it's not a proposal for someone who want to seriously make music, especially for commercial purposes. It just doesn't give value for money.
I know right! No music with a Model D on it has ever made a dime. :roll:
How many dimes? Can you earn back these 3700 USD today?

Actually I did have a chance to play with original 1977 model just two days ago... it's a joke. Sounds like a toy, feels like one and I'm pretty confident I explored all the sound design possibilities it has in just 10 minutes. The only value of this synth is historical. :dog:
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