very confused about sequencers....so im asking again.

[Goseba]

I will see about adding some pics in the DIY forum tomorrow.

Regarding other sequencers, the RM1X seems to be asking too much money nowadays, not as cheap as they were. From memory, did you have to stop it when editing, I can't remember?
Emu command stations are good and bargains can be had, don't forget the Emu 2500 too.
Of these, if I had to get one again, it would be a Command Station.
I liked the Octatrack midi sequencer but couldn't get with the sampling side. Digitakts may fit the top end of the budget second hand, but no song mode.
Never had one, but MMT8's can be had for a reasonable price.

I love messing about with hardware sequencers/synths but never get songs finished.
If I want finished songs the computer wins hands down.

[ghettosynth]

The Beatstep Pro is great for laying down sequences on the fly. Not so great for building a song, from the device. Management of patterns/projects is also a bit annoying, so I don't often save the sequences I program in the BSP. It does however, have a lot of neat features for modifying sequences in real time. I usually use it to sequence one instrument at a time, then record the results as audio for future arrangement.

I've found that to be the case with a number of modern MIDI sequencers. Lots of real time control but little thought put into project management or arrangement of parts into a song.

I think that this is largely related to the DJ approach to live performance and that there's just not much need for live arrangement with hardware sequencers when you're using that approach. Even when sequencers had decent capability for this, I tended not to use it in live shows preferring to arrange patterns on the fly. As you say, the BSP works well for a single instrument and this was my approach when I played live, I'd use a sequencer for each instrument and just sync them. Then your arrangement would be not unlike using Ableton where you are selecting patterns for each instrument. In fact, I'm fairly certain that this mode of live performance was instrumental in the motivation of Ableton. If the crowd is into the deep part, you give them or of it, for example.

I never was happy trying to use just one sequencer for everything as this quickly begins to introduce complexity into your live setup. I did like the RS7K for this, in particular, it's scene and mute memory were great for very quickly switching between dramatically different configurations of a particular set of patterns.

I have to say that I don't like most one man shows. I didn't like them then, and I don't like them now. I still think that the best live electronic shows are done this way but with two or three people so that you get this dynamism and interaction between performers. Probably the area that I don't mind one man shows is when the stuff is purely ambient and experimental. There I think that one person can do a decent job. Anyway, now I've devolved completely into opinion.

[ghettosynth]

I will see about adding some pics in the DIY forum tomorrow.

Regarding other sequencers, the RM1X seems to be asking too much money nowadays, not as cheap as they were. From memory, did you have to stop it when editing, I can't remember?

Yes. The RS7K, which is really just an evolution of the RM1X, can be edited while running, but it's awkward and not that useful.

Looks like the RS7K has gone up as well. Good, I might sell mine then.

I love messing about with hardware sequencers/synths but never get songs finished. If I want finished songs the computer wins hands down.

I think that this depends on what one means by finished song. My live "arrangements" were just that. Key patterns from a track played and arranged live. That said, this was back when home studios didn't have the gear (virtual or HW) that they have today.

[chaosWyrM]

i see this discussion has picked up again.

im not in a hurry...i havent gotten anything yet. i was looking at maybe a pyramid...but now....im thinking the deluge might be exactly what im looking for sequencer wise. i know its also a synth/sampler....but that grid layout looks pretty slick. i like the zoom function and i like how you can see more of whats going on.

the pyramid has euclidean capabilities, which the deluge does not...but the deluge does have conditional triggering.

i really like that grid on the deluge.

[Treebase]

Thanks, Goseba. If you could post where you got everything from (including the case) it would be much appreciated. I can't work it out from the ucapps website.

There seems to be a recent trend where people with a few synths seem to get the idea that moving away from a computer is going to bring some sort of magic. Those of us who came from there know that, while there is some truth to the immediacy of hardware, it's more about the grass being greener.

..........

I wouldn't go back to any of it. The closest that I would get to that today would be something like a maschine and a laptop. With rare exception, when I hear people playing with simple sequencers it sounds exactly what I would expect from simple sequencers. Sometimes that's ok, again, it's genre dependent, but mostly I think that it comes across as hardware fetish without much thought. YMMV and all that.

Some wise words there. I have spent the last year obsessively researching hardware sequencers. I work with MIDI gear and use a fair amount of MIDI CCs in my sequences to add movement to synth lines.


The Elektron sequencing boxes (Machinedrum, Monomachine and Octatrack) come close but not quite. The Deluge lacks a real screen. Not convinced about the Pyramid (rubber buttons, small screen, touchpad).

The only hardware sequencers that *seem* to cut it for my needs are the super expensive and not really available Cirklon and the DIY-only MIDISeq4... But even there I know there will be limitations that will probably send me back to the computer. Maschine seems the most realistic option (Live + Push is pretty bad for sequencing MIDI hardware )...

In the end the workflow suggested by Justin seems the best to me. MIDI is suitable for controlling a synth module from a keyboard, not so much for driving a whole bunch of gear at the same time from a sequencer. Trying to make complete arrangements with MIDI is a real struggle. It will sooner or later start glitching as MIDI is a serial protocol and gets easily clogged- stuck notes is a real creativity killer. Instead it is better to create phrases/patterns with whatever MIDI sequencer you want + live playing/tweaking, then record those as audio and create your full track using the samples.

[bharris22]

I have been thinking a lot about this issue lately, as well. I am certainly no expert in this area, but I have concluded that while my few analog synths are great for sound generation, the computer is still miles ahead of dedicated hardware in terms of MIDI note generation/sequencing. Thus, I have been trying to use both for their strengths. I have a $100 Windows tablet on which I run Reaktor 5 with no problems. I have all different sorts of sequencers running on Reaktor that I am able to use to drive my hardware synths (a $20 USB to MIDI cable from Amazon works fine for me), including Euclidean rhythms, Spiral, NOD-E, as well as more traditional sequencers. Plus, the tablet also runs Sugar Bytes Thesys, Consequence, Squaredheads Nora, etc., easily, giving me practically unlimited sequencing abilities. To me, this is the most flexible and cost-effective approach but, of course, everyone needs to find what works best for them.

For me, the added benefit of running these various sequencers on the Windows tablet is that I can easily take this with me on business travel and other trips, and work on my music using VST instruments (or, in the case of Thesys and Consequence, built-in sounds) while away from the analog synths. When I get back home, I simply plug the tablet back in to the synths for analog goodness .

[deastman]

I think the Deluge looks fantastic. I do wish it had a proper display, but all the functionality you could want is in there.

Personally though, I would just stick with a laptop running Live, and a Push 2 or similar to trigger clips.

[Goseba]

I have started a thread about my Seq v4 build here so as not to divert this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=180&t=504844&p=7077764#p7077764

[bharris22]

Another potential option is a Yamaha QY70 or QY100 - these can be had on eBay or Reverb for less than $200, and seem to offer good sequencing abilities. I have one on the way and am very hopeful that it will provide this capability. Plus, it also has seemingly decent built-in sounds and can be used as a self-contained unit for travel.

[rod_zero]

I would sell those synth and get some that have integrated sequencer, starting with an elektron A4(second hand).

[chaosWyrM]

Another potential option is a Yamaha QY70 or QY100 - these can be had on eBay or Reverb for less than $200, and seem to offer good sequencing abilities. I have one on the way and am very hopeful that it will provide this capability. Plus, it also has seemingly decent built-in sounds and can be used as a self-contained unit for travel.

yeesh...that looks maddeningly cumbersome to program. you are a better man than i sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGJa92_2yec

[bharris22]

Another potential option is a Yamaha QY70 or QY100 - these can be had on eBay or Reverb for less than $200, and seem to offer good sequencing abilities. I have one on the way and am very hopeful that it will provide this capability. Plus, it also has seemingly decent built-in sounds and can be used as a self-contained unit for travel.

yeesh...that looks maddeningly cumbersome to program. you are a better man than i sir.

It may end up being so. I have seen a lot of people (on Muff Wiggler, for example) who have had luck with it, so I thought I would give it a try.

[ghettosynth]

Another potential option is a Yamaha QY70 or QY100 - these can be had on eBay or Reverb for less than $200, and seem to offer good sequencing abilities. I have one on the way and am very hopeful that it will provide this capability. Plus, it also has seemingly decent built-in sounds and can be used as a self-contained unit for travel.

yeesh...that looks maddeningly cumbersome to program. you are a better man than i sir.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGJa92_2yec

Yeah, I had an earlier version of one of these and it was cumbersome and limited. These versions are better than what I had, but still not my cup of tea.

I wasn't crazy about it, but, MMT-8s are very straightforward from a basic midi and live recording POV. I think I still have a couple somewhere, I should sell those too.

[tapper mike]

I used to dream of owning an RS7K

I've had more than a few moments where I wanted to go back to an all hardware rig. Mostly to get away from the computer. When one is on a computer distractions are lurking everywhere. FB email etc. It was made worse when I was a support technician for a software company working from home. These days I just regulate my free time better. I find making the most of what I have more productive than chasing after things I don't.

[acid alex]

I’m surprised no-one has mention the Social Entropy Engine MIDI Sequencer! I’ve been using this to create whole tracks for a couple of years. It’s fully featured but has no menu diving at all. Highly recommended.

Here’s a few of my videos showing what it can do...

https://youtu.be/7TWsmZOvZp8
https://youtu.be/BywKoNRX9wY
https://youtu.be/wgukWbAs5Uo