KVR Audio

wonshu · Post by **wonshu** » Thu May 17, 2018 12:11 pm

... to make place for another standard with higher resolution control values and probably many other features that would make our lives better.

Side question:
What is out there that works today (hardware controller, but also software that can handle the messages) and has higher resolution control values?

Best
Hans

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 17, 2018 12:15 pm

OSC is there.

MIDI ain't gonna die any time soon.

wonshu · Post by **wonshu** » Thu May 17, 2018 12:41 pm

After reading up on it (again, after a couple of years) right now I immediately stumbled upon stuff I have to install to use TouchOSC with OSC instead of MIDI that has been deprecated for at least 5 OS versions.

This is not an alternative unfortunately.

But perhaps someone can point me in a more contemporary direction?

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:09 pm

MIDI continuous controllers can have a resolution of 14 bits. For the pitch wheel this is standard, for other controller values it's done with MSB/LSB pairs. It's up to the gear manufacturers to implement it (or not.) This allows for example for a CC controlling the pitch to do so over the whole audible range with a precision of one cent. Not enough??

So the question really is: does your midi controller get the most out of MIDI already?

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:26 pm

wonshu wrote:After reading up on it (again, after a couple of years) right now I immediately stumbled upon stuff I have to install to use TouchOSC with OSC instead of MIDI that has been deprecated for at least 5 OS versions.

Not sure what you're implying. TouchOSC supports macOS 10.5+.

OSC is as contemporary as you're going to get.

wonshu · Post by **wonshu** » Thu May 17, 2018 3:08 pm

https://hexler.net/docs/touchosc-getting-started-osc

needs:
Pure Data (which is only 32 bit, so gives me a warning and will probably stop working pretty soon)
Pure Data needs X11 which is no longer officially supported.

So, for this solution to work, I have to seriously compromise my system, or risk investing time now which is lost, once 32-bit apps don't work at all anymore.

I probably haven't found the right system, so please point me to how I can create (yes, I want to design my own, like TouchOSC or Lemur allows) a good OSC controller using an iPad. That would be very nice!

Best
Hans

Jace-BeOS · Post by **Jace-BeOS** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:24 pm

HD MIDI has been "coming soon" for decades but the industry hasn't agreed upon anything enough to get it implemented (at least not to the same degree originally agreed on with MIDI 1.0).

Some companies tried marketing poorly implemented replacement music networking systems (like Yamaha's abysmal mLAN), wasting resources and customer good will, leaving early adopters annoyed and going back to existing tech when the new formats failed to get established.

Going wireless is more interesting to people than going HD, and wireless isn't exactly a great transport system for high-density, delivery time-guaranteed data. Even standard MIDI performs poorly with wireless.

MPE is the biggest news in MIDI standards... and it is merely a formalized alternative use of existing MIDI standards, which took ages to be formalized by the MIDI standards organization.

Use of 14-bit MIDI is obscure (setting up software/controllers every time you want to use one, needing hardware/software that supports it, etc).

OSC is a PITA to set up (needs a host/server and IP addresses??) and there's nothing automatic about it. And then there's latency(?).

This all just boils down to the basic fact: MIDI isn't going to "die" any time soon; it has spent all this time NOT being improved upon because it has been "good enough" to do the basics. Most users only care about the basics.

So few users seem to care about the finer details of performance expression. Most manufacturers don't even sell controllers with poly aftertouch; they see no demand for it. When someone builds hardware with lots of expression, it's expensive and few people buy it. The hard core buyers aren't a critical mass and the media reviewer of said products never promote these devices as substantially better than basic (cheaper) controllers.

I presume most people using MIDI (knowingly or unknowingly) aren't performers demanding superb expression control.

I used to be one of the people who would ask this same inquiry of forums (like my earlier posts here on KVR about HD MIDI). Since then, I've seen all the above issues play out and stopped hoping.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri May 18, 2018 4:14 am

wonshu wrote:So, for this solution to work, I have to seriously compromise my system, or risk investing time now which is lost, once 32-bit apps don't work at all anymore.

Or use Windows, where having 32-bit apps will not be a problem at all.

wonshu · Post by **wonshu** » Fri May 18, 2018 7:19 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:This all just boils down to the basic fact: MIDI isn't going to "die" any time soon; it has spent all this time NOT being improved upon because it has been "good enough" to do the basics. Most users only care about the basics.

Thank you for taking the time, you are putting my exact experiences into words!

After 2 or 3 years of not looking into this issue I had hoped that there is some news out there, those hopes are again shattered.

Maybe I do have to go analog modular for some specific sounds.

Best,
Hans

SJ_Digriz · Post by **SJ_Digriz** » Fri May 18, 2018 5:52 pm

Tuesday

wonshu · Post by **wonshu** » Sat May 19, 2018 10:06 am

lol.

Ok, then.

When is MIDI finally going to die?