Opinions for most wanted improvements...

[TiUser]

Probably, but referring to what Cantabile is meant to be this feature sounds like avant garde...

[humphrey]

Hi,

once again me. I already mentioned extended Sub-Session features but would like to point out this: I ordered the new komplete 7 from NI and am already a user of omnisphere. Here I have the problem of long load times for omni whereas kontakt (which is part of Komplete) often crashes cantabile. The reason behind is that a session doesn't keep the sample based VSTis in mind so the whole content is loaded again and again.

I think the only workaround is to load all of the sounds only once (which of course is only possible when you have enough RAM available and use a 64Bit OS - probably with jBridge for isolation issues). Sub-Sessions could probably do the trick but here we have the problem that they don't have all the necessary MIDI-featured available.

As I also own forte I can say that this issue is solved sufficiently here: I can load 3 instances of Kontakt and Omni each and have next to no delay when changing soundsets! What I loose are all the nice features cantabile has available over forte (effect-send, pan, media-players, compressor, integrated jBridge,...).

So I'm in the dilemma to stick to forte and I think I'm not the only user with this problem (please keep in mind that kontakt is the "center machine" of komplete making available all the nice sounds like pianos, scarbees rhodes, wurlis, klavinets, basses, hammond organs,...).

So for me a proper solution of this problem is the most needed addon at the moment.

regards, humphrey

[TiUser]

I understand the problem and I am mad about this topic too. However I think we first should find out more details.

When you think of improvements switching from one session to another I guess that will be difficult because Cantabile will always reinitialize the plugins vst preset (fxp) or presetbank (fxb) and usually sample based plugins react by reloading their content then. I don't think forte can do anything else here, but I do think forte doesn't do that at all and simply works with one "session" - to tell it in Cantabile terms.

Within a subsession in the same session it depends on how you use the plugin. If you have set the "load entire bank" subsession option for a sample based plugin probably all ends up responding the same as with session changes, on the other hand there is usually no other way reconfiguring the big sample plugins on vst preset level...

So the first thing to do in Cantabile is to switch off the "load entire bank" subsession option. But now there is the problem how to switch sounds at all...

I see two basic ways here. One is preloading sample instruments assigned to different midi channels, then "switching" the midi channel. This is not impossible but a cumbersome "technical" method as you need to tackle with midi routings for sound changes in Cantablie. Second is using oldstyle midi program changes. As far as I know Kontakt can organize sound banks with 128 sounds - also I still need to check this out myself and I am not sure if this works in free Kontakt Player too. Anyways, in Cantabile you would have to set triggers to switch the sounds then. This isn't great too but again technically a possible option.

To simplify both non intuitive procedures quoted above there were already several suggestions which are unfortunately still not implemented. I really like the midi program chance approach and a sound selector just sending those as optional alternative to sending vst patches - also I see probably other problems arising when using this with synths again...

I've even suggested an option to permanently load certain plugins and not just caching plugins for reuse from one to the next session to improve session switching performance.

It all may be because Brad has started writing this host for his own use with grand piano sounds and one usually does not have many loaded at the same time and simple switching methods will not turn out to be that messy then...

Finally I agree that all this isn't comfortable for a live host and needs improvements... using sample based plugins that way is an issue in Cantabile... but Brad is still not around here, so what can I say?

[humphrey]

Hi TiUser,

[quote="TiUser"]

I don't think forte can do anything else here, but I do think forte doesn't do that at all and simply works with one "session" - to tell it in Cantabile terms.

[/quote]

Yes and No: what we call "Session" in cantabile is (more or less) called "Rack" in Forte. It is sort of more static as it fixes the used plugins for a whole show.

The trick is: you globaly decide (for each plugin separated) if a plugin is loaded once (which is the proper way for plugs with sample content) and change the sound by mapping the midi chanel or sending program changes (as you described it) or using it the "cantabile way" which means the configuration is uploaded for this plugin (here you have the possibility to reload the setup for every sound or only if it is different from the last one). Most important: the whole bunch of midi manipulations is available for every plugin at any time.

Last not least: you did a brillant analysis of the problem and mentioned the implementations necessary to realise what I talked of. To do this is of course not your task.

Thanks for your reply and regards, humphrey

[TiUser]

I think we basically agree.

Referring to your description a forte rack and a Cantabile session seems to be pretty much the same basic thing, a static set of plugins. Cantabile subsessions can only modify "states" within that static set in one session as well.

Cantabile has some tools to technically archive the tasks we desire but they are practically hard to use and probably not in the location they might be needed mostly...

I hope Brad will come back soon - Cantabile is already too good do be doomed and I don't think adding subsession sensitive midi target channel selection or adding sound selection by program changes instead of vst patches is a too complex thing.

But there's currently no other way than to wait...

[eas88]

I want Cantabile to have an option so that it can AUTOMATICALLY skip to NEXT song in the SET LIST after a song has ended!

[TiUser]

That's a bit vague description. Can you specify the conditions when this should happen? How should Cantabile know when you've finished playing a song?

[eas88]

That's a bit vague description. Can you specify the conditions when this should happen? How should Cantabile know when you've finished playing a song?

It can skip to next song when all tracks in the project has ended. Just like Cakewalk SONAR for example. But I don't want to use SONAR......

[TiUser]

I see.

Still it has to be considered more in detail how this feature could be realized and matched Cantabile's concept... It could be an extension of the media player functionality, it could be a trigger extension or probably a setlist option.

Actually I am not too sure where to put the idea. As Cantabile is meant as a live performance software and not as a jukebox I am also not too sure if this is probably too much automation?

[mbunkerusa]

AUTO-ADMIN: Non-MP3, WAV, OGG, SoundCloud, YouTube, Vimeo, Twitter and Facebook links in this post have been protected automatically. Once the member reaches 5 posts the links will function as normal.

Different topic:
I have been using LoopBe30 as outputs from my scoring program, Overture. Each MIDI pipe from LoopBe30 has 16 MIDI channels. With each instance of a stand-alone player (typically Play, Aria, Kontakt, or Sonar, for example) I have been directing each channel in the pipe to a different instrument in the players, which allow 16 instruments to be configured for each instance of the player. Most players can save multiple config files where the instruments on the 16 MIDI channels are configured differently. This is pretty convenient.

So basically, I have 16 MIDI channels that can be addressed on each of up to 30 MIDI pipes, one pipe to each instance of a player. At the Overture forum we call these multi-channel players multis.

It would be grand if Cantabile had an additional option under the player 'MIDI In' column for Multis, where the 16 MIDI channels can each be handled within a Multi-channel player from a MIDI pipe tool like LoopBe30.

Ref: Overture - http://www.geniesoft.com (http://www.geniesoft.com)
LoopBe30 - http://nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html (http://nerds.de/en/loopbe30.html)

-Mike

[mbunkerusa]

OK, I see where this was mentioned in an early post on page 1 under 'Multi timbral plugin handling' using different terminology. I'm happy that this is being considered.
-Mike

[TiUser]

OK, I see where this was mentioned in an early post on page 1 under 'Multi timbral plugin handling' using different terminology. I'm happy that this is being considered.
-Mike

Probably alternate configurations with Cantabile is a workaround for you to have different setups even right now. Of course you can not switch these session - or setlist based then.

But you are right too that there are different discussions on enhancements in several midi handling aspects.

[eas88]

I see.

Still it has to be considered more in detail how this feature could be realized and matched Cantabile's concept... It could be an extension of the media player functionality, it could be a trigger extension or probably a setlist option.

Actually I am not too sure where to put the idea. As Cantabile is meant as a live performance software and not as a jukebox I am also not too sure if this is probably too much automation?

And why wouldn't that feature fit in the Live performance concept?

I use Cantabile as a live performance software. It works as a midi and audio player in my band. Backtracks and light programming with click-tracks. I sometimes trigger sounds thru midi as well. Don't know about another program for PC that is as fast and stable as Cantabile.

[TiUser]

And why wouldn't that feature fit in the Live performance concept?

I didn't say that... just that I am not too sure how to realize the feature you suggest and where to put it in Cantabile. I also suggested some ideas how to look at it and hoped for your opinions - that's all.

[nickwing]

I put "other" because I'd like the support for rewire propellerheads technology... In order to use Reason/Record software in Cantabile tooo...