Help!! Please! (instrument libraries)

[pinkcanaru]

Patch changes on halion sonic are handled in a very seamless way.
Arguments against key switching live could be the same arguments used against the 'theatre organ ' approach. Any instrument needs to be practiced and learned.
The choreography involved in using a theatre organ is extensive. You have to know the location of every stop required for a piece. Foot controllers and bass pedals too !
How far one needs to go is a purely personal matter. The point is that whether it's hardware or software you have to know your setup if you are doing more than just playing one preset per song.
I think it's quite feasible that one plugin - such as halion sonic - can be employed so extensively that only a couple of extras might be required.
In my live setup I am now using 4 keyboards plugged into the same cantabile.
The plugins are 2 x halion 4 (same engine as Hal sonic ) 2 x omnisphere, 4 x synth 1, 1 x vb3 organ, 1 x mr ray piano
PLUS - a bunch of guitar racks with virtual amps fx etc - which automatically enable the audio inputs for guitar when needed.
The ability to bypass what is not required means that the CPU can cope.

It took some investment in time to get this the way I wanted it but - to achieve the astounding flexibility offered by this one laptop I would be juggling a LOT of hardware - many more cables and intruducing more variables.
The next task is to get a backup laptop which is a clone. When one's rig relies on one crucial component - a laptop - it makes sense to prioritse having a backup.
Could I do that in hardware. Yeah - but OMG the expense and logistical nightmare !!!

[TiUser]

@pinkanaru

I know we are getting a bit OT but forgive that I have to respond.

"Patch changes on halion sonic are handled in a very seamless way."
All I say is seamless patch change is nothing to be expected - nor with plugins neither with HW. Sampler plugins often work sweet, synth plugins are a very mixed bag. The point to be checked is just how much effort it is to set things up as needed. My opinion is systems should just behave that seamless way - it's nothing a musician should take care of or deal with explicitely.

Arguments against key switching live could be the same arguments used against the 'theatre organ ' approach. Any instrument needs to be practiced and learned.
There is no discussion about that. I also agree that every instrument has to be learned. However to create your own instrument - like you are probably doing more on the PC+SW solution is an additional point.
In addition keyboard players are often expected to replace any acoustic instrument - but it's hard to play non keyboard stuff on keys even convinving.
What I mean is probably something different than you think of, using keyswitches it not really something "intuitive". I have often seen videos where people play keys and intuitively do a movement like a violin player does to create vibrato. However there isn't any keyboard that tries to sense and interpret this intuitive expression. True, one could use aftertouch or a wheel to get the same effect, but that is what has to be learned and probbaly needs another hand, for something that could probably sensed in other more musical ways.

The choreography involved in using a theatre organ is extensive. You have to know the location of every stop required for a piece. Foot controllers and bass pedals too !
Thats right.
However there is a concept called registrations where you can save stop combinations. Theatre organs are in some ways more advanced to modern workstations and controllers - as they move all the stops when recalling a registration. Feedback of any kind is still not a standard with live keyboard setups. That is IMHO one reason why it's hard to play on a setup of somebody else - because you need to know what happens rather that being informed by the controlling instance of such a setup.

In my live setup I am now using 4 keyboards plugged into the same cantabile. ...
That's basically not different to a big organ. I didn't know that you are using such an extensive set - interesting to know. With such a setup seamless patch changes are indeed less of an issue as you can simply play on another bord to get another sound - that's the most comfortable approach for a live player.

It took some investment in time to get this the way I wanted it...
Nothing different to what I said.

...a LOT of hardware - many more cables...
Indeed I agree. When setups grow each any construction can easily get messy...

The next task is to get a backup laptop which is a clone. When one's rig relies on one crucial component - a laptop - it makes sense to prioritse having a backup.
That's a very professional way of looking at a setup. However I agree that your thoughts are consequent. In any case such a backup system is extra expense.

But finally the question is if the original post included all these needs. In any case I hope discussion can spread ideas - benefits and disadvantages. That's what a forum should be about - the sum shall be greater than its individual parts.

[pinkcanaru]

I'm always interested to hear your thoughts TiUser - because you set the bar high and consider things that the modern computer musician has come to simply 'tolerate' - such as messy patch changes - to be shortcomings which can only be improved when we make them a priority. Software writers should be aware that these things MATTER, especially in live performance.

"All I say is seamless patch change is nothing to be expected - nor with plugins neither with HW. Sampler plugins often work sweet, synth plugins are a very mixed bag."

That's why the best thing we can do is inform ourselves as to which plugins not only sound good but also perform tolerably in a live situation. We simply don't have the time to indulge some flakey quirk or inefficiency when playing live.

One thing that computers do so well is to recall snapshots with relative ease. In the case of Cantabile and a 64 bit system, as we have discussed in the past, it makes sense to lock the sounds into the one major setup and simply use the midi routing to access the required noises. I think this applies primarily to samples.

A well written synth engine does not have to go CLONK between patch changes.
In the case of Halion 4 (same engine as Halion Sonic) releases actually complete even when a new patch is loaded over an existing one. Very few plugins offer this facility - and, I dare say, it would be quite a task for a theatre organ - unless it employed the same technology.

So, our OP is looking for advice on the best performance instrument which he could paint onto Cantibile's blank canvas. Halion Sonic has to be way up there in terms of its playabilty, Motif like credentials and seamless patch changes.

[TiUser]

...well you got it, I have my own head about things... LOL That's why I probably will never be satisfied with my own software development... I know well how difficult it is technically to get what I want.

Finally tech stuff is just one point - and sound quality is another.

To be honest you made me curious... Just the demos with steinberg for halion sonic seem to point in a misleading direction. I can't believe that's a dance and trance thing like most demos seem to suggest there...

Do you know any links that show of the total library? Digging youtube didn't help me much either...

[fmr]

Do you know any links that show of the total library? Digging youtube didn't help me much either...

http://www.steinberg.net/fileadmin/reda ... _-_1.5.pdf
I thought there was a tryout somewhere, but probably it's just for Steinberg customers.

[TiUser]

http://www.steinberg.net/fileadmin/reda ... _-_1.5.pdf
I thought there was a tryout somewhere, but probably it's just for Steinberg customers.

Thanks a lot for that. Hope I can find a tryout containing all these sounds.

It's remarkable how many Sax sounds are to be found in the list. If these are as good as in a motif or tyros this thing gets tempting to me...