Hey there,
I'm a relative newcomer to the world of softsynthesis and DAW music creation, and the kind of stuff I'm involved in is pretty different from most of what I've heard on KVR. As a result, I've been pretty intimidated about posting anything, but I wanted to at least point this one out as a thank you to some of the fine developers I've become aware of since hanging out here over the last couple years.
Semi-briefly: I got a call from a choreographer who needed a dance score, and pretty quick - this is 4 weeks before the performance. The dance had already been done once before, to live hand drumming, but she wanted different music. The catch was that it was about 8 minutes of completely laid-out meters and tempos and tempo changes. I just had to fill it all in with music. Oh, yes: the piece involves water - in fact, there is an actual water sculpture on stage that the dancers interact with. That said, she asked if I could incorporate water sounds, including rhythmically.
Yikes.
So it doesn't flow quite like a perfect piece of music, having to 'fit' on the dancers without changing their routine. And I couldn't have imagined, in an earlier lifetime, that I'd be able to do this all with a lunch-box sized computer sitting next to me. Lastly, while I've been a performer all my life, and done a fair amount of recording (as a player), I am by no means qualified to record and mix. In fact, one of the reasons I took this project on was to try and get deeper into the process, learn my tools a bit more, etc. So I'd welcome comments on how I can go the next steps; the best part is this is a work in progress, and we'll be able to revise in the future.
Thanks to...
Instruments: RMIV, CronoX3, Rhino 2, z3ta+ 1.4, Wusikstation 2.0, Tera 2.0, ChineeKong 2.0
Assitance: energyXT, Chainer
FX: RoomVerb M2, Glaceverb, Sonitus EQ
Host: Sonar
Oh yeah, the tune:
Tidal Falls (10mb, 10 minutes)
Cheers,
Envoy
[Envoy] Modern dance score, helped by KVR
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- KVRist
- 156 posts since 13 Dec, 2004 from houston texas usa
a nice track, Envoy. good work. Your choice of realistic percussion samples is great. organic and epic. where are those taiko drums from? 3/4's into the song, two precussive tine/synth sounds come in and disrupt the track's organic feel. those strident FM tones might have a strong relation to the choreography, though.
It's hard to work with a new choreographer for the first time. Many choreographers view music as elastic as dancing, wanting abrupt changes, adding seven counts to the middle of a 4/4 phrase, or just running you around with nit-picking editing jobs. When you work with existing choreography [esp. with a dance that had little or no accompaniment], it usually gets a lot harder. to my ears, you did a great job of fullfilling those specific phrase changes. A good trick to cover up the changes that you think are the most abrupt/jarring/unnatural is to add a melodic theme that you can refer to later on in the piece. You did a good job of transitioning between phrases with those cymbals.
Just remember that your opinion is always valid when working with others, don't feel like you have to make compromises that you're uncomfortable with: changing choreography is always easier than adding seven counts to the middle of your song.
also, just my opinion-don't take it too seriously, don't be afraid to EQ your samples, synths, and reverbs. sometimes they can be too bright.
If you ever get the performance onto DVD, perhaps we could trade some footage. Our troupe has been performing for about three years now, and we might have some stuff that interests you and your choreographer.
PS- NEVER date a dancer you're working with. Wait till after the show. Always try to sign a contract before you start working, to protect your payment, and to a lesser extent, the rights to your music.
And always use Absynth when you run out of ideas. HAHAHA!
again, congrats.
It's hard to work with a new choreographer for the first time. Many choreographers view music as elastic as dancing, wanting abrupt changes, adding seven counts to the middle of a 4/4 phrase, or just running you around with nit-picking editing jobs. When you work with existing choreography [esp. with a dance that had little or no accompaniment], it usually gets a lot harder. to my ears, you did a great job of fullfilling those specific phrase changes. A good trick to cover up the changes that you think are the most abrupt/jarring/unnatural is to add a melodic theme that you can refer to later on in the piece. You did a good job of transitioning between phrases with those cymbals.
Just remember that your opinion is always valid when working with others, don't feel like you have to make compromises that you're uncomfortable with: changing choreography is always easier than adding seven counts to the middle of your song.
also, just my opinion-don't take it too seriously, don't be afraid to EQ your samples, synths, and reverbs. sometimes they can be too bright.
If you ever get the performance onto DVD, perhaps we could trade some footage. Our troupe has been performing for about three years now, and we might have some stuff that interests you and your choreographer.
PS- NEVER date a dancer you're working with. Wait till after the show. Always try to sign a contract before you start working, to protect your payment, and to a lesser extent, the rights to your music.
And always use Absynth when you run out of ideas. HAHAHA!
again, congrats.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 275 posts since 20 Aug, 2003
Shamann, thanks for the good words - we'll have to have a talk about Kyle Gann sometime... 
bobbyblank - same, thanks for your thoughts. All the drums (which were Chinese, not Japanese) are from the VST 'instrument' ChineeKong2, from Kong Audio. They have a presence over in the instrument forum. It is essentially a sample library wrapped as a VST instrument, or you can order as a sample library separately. I'll definitely find use for this (and imagine - I'm a percussionist with a ton of gear already!).
Good call on the FM melodic sounds; I tried to keep things watery, but was not finding really the right thing. This is one area I'll revisit, as well as make some phrases overlap the sections a little more. It was a trick working with their 'score', and indeed some of the melodic or other events that don't make a lot of sense musically happen in conjunction with choreography, so at least most of those things happen for a reason.
My next frontier is very much more careful sculpting and mixing. Believe it or not, this time I *did* venture into some targeted EQ work. On a couple of kbd tracks, which were really muddy, so I used VoxengoSPAN to see the spectrum and then the included Sonitus 6-band EQ to try and clear the air. Funny about the highs: this mix *does* have some spikiness to it, but I went to the theater where it is going to be performed, and the sound system it pretty played out and there are LOTS of thick drapes, etc. Turned out what was - in my room - a little too much verb and a little too hot high end came out just about right in that dead box of a hall.
Ack, I'm babbling. Thanks for the thoughts, PM me about other dance stuff if you want...
Cheers,
Envoy
bobbyblank - same, thanks for your thoughts. All the drums (which were Chinese, not Japanese) are from the VST 'instrument' ChineeKong2, from Kong Audio. They have a presence over in the instrument forum. It is essentially a sample library wrapped as a VST instrument, or you can order as a sample library separately. I'll definitely find use for this (and imagine - I'm a percussionist with a ton of gear already!).
Good call on the FM melodic sounds; I tried to keep things watery, but was not finding really the right thing. This is one area I'll revisit, as well as make some phrases overlap the sections a little more. It was a trick working with their 'score', and indeed some of the melodic or other events that don't make a lot of sense musically happen in conjunction with choreography, so at least most of those things happen for a reason.
My next frontier is very much more careful sculpting and mixing. Believe it or not, this time I *did* venture into some targeted EQ work. On a couple of kbd tracks, which were really muddy, so I used VoxengoSPAN to see the spectrum and then the included Sonitus 6-band EQ to try and clear the air. Funny about the highs: this mix *does* have some spikiness to it, but I went to the theater where it is going to be performed, and the sound system it pretty played out and there are LOTS of thick drapes, etc. Turned out what was - in my room - a little too much verb and a little too hot high end came out just about right in that dead box of a hall.
Ack, I'm babbling. Thanks for the thoughts, PM me about other dance stuff if you want...
Cheers,
Envoy
the dreamer that remains . . .
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- KVRAF
- 1955 posts since 5 Sep, 2003 from Denmark
Very enjoyable and creates a lot of images.
I've been into Harry Partch lately who had some very interesting ideas of music and performance - and a few very outstanding pieces of music as well. He was very percussive oriented, esp. towards the end of his life. He is many things besides tuning theories.
The reason I mention Partch is that your sounds, harmonics and melody seem to be very within conservative limits. The sounds are (too) nice, hollow, shiny. And a bit synthetic. Harmony and melody sounds squarely trad. western to my ears (without any analysis). I like what you're doing rythmically, but I think the "niceness" of the other dimensions detracts from a otherwise impressing piece of music.
Most be challenging and educating to work within such limits. I'm sure I could never do such a thing. Thanx for sharing.
Thomas
I've been into Harry Partch lately who had some very interesting ideas of music and performance - and a few very outstanding pieces of music as well. He was very percussive oriented, esp. towards the end of his life. He is many things besides tuning theories.
The reason I mention Partch is that your sounds, harmonics and melody seem to be very within conservative limits. The sounds are (too) nice, hollow, shiny. And a bit synthetic. Harmony and melody sounds squarely trad. western to my ears (without any analysis). I like what you're doing rythmically, but I think the "niceness" of the other dimensions detracts from a otherwise impressing piece of music.
Most be challenging and educating to work within such limits. I'm sure I could never do such a thing. Thanx for sharing.
Thomas
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 275 posts since 20 Aug, 2003
PM'd about some of your comments, and thank you for listening with a critical ear. This piece was certainly not as 'outside' as *I* could have done, but I had not worked with this choreographer before, and the emotional thrust of the dance was moderately light, not too off-putting. With little time for the dancers to get used to a score, I figured I should be somewhat conservative - we can always get crazy on our next project!respirator wrote:Very enjoyable and creates a lot of images.
I've been into Harry Partch lately ...
Cheers,
Envoy
the dreamer that remains . . .
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- KVRAF
- 1955 posts since 5 Sep, 2003 from Denmark
Hi Envoy
Didn't get your PM
Didn't get your PM
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- KVRAF
- 1930 posts since 29 Aug, 2003 from Austin, TX
Wow Envoy! That's an excellent composition! I like it just the way you have it done here. The dancers must have loved it.
Riley
Riley
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experimental.crow experimental.crow https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=6258
- KVRAF
- 6895 posts since 9 Mar, 2003 from the bridge of sighs
well done ...
i'm enjoying the contortions of the little imaginary dancers
on the sonic stage you have set ...
i'm enjoying the contortions of the little imaginary dancers
on the sonic stage you have set ...
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 275 posts since 20 Aug, 2003
Riley, Normal -
Glad you enjoyed it. It really *is* a strange thing to see dancers rehearsing to - essentially - a click track, and trying to imagine the proper sound world and events to set their movements to. What I _hoped_ was that on viewing it, it would seem that their moves had been choreographed to the music. For the most part, that seems to have worked; I'll have to wait for more critical eyes tomorrow at the show.
As for the dancers? Yeah, they like it quite a bit, but then again they now have music, and before they didn't! Talk about an easy sale...
Thank again,
Envoy
Glad you enjoyed it. It really *is* a strange thing to see dancers rehearsing to - essentially - a click track, and trying to imagine the proper sound world and events to set their movements to. What I _hoped_ was that on viewing it, it would seem that their moves had been choreographed to the music. For the most part, that seems to have worked; I'll have to wait for more critical eyes tomorrow at the show.
As for the dancers? Yeah, they like it quite a bit, but then again they now have music, and before they didn't! Talk about an easy sale...
Thank again,
Envoy
the dreamer that remains . . .
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- KVRist
- 123 posts since 23 Jan, 2005
love it....
I actually think the sounds that come in at about 3:40 tineish are fantastic and the way they morph into the percussive elements is very outlandish....
Horns Up
I actually think the sounds that come in at about 3:40 tineish are fantastic and the way they morph into the percussive elements is very outlandish....
Horns Up
fell in line with the shore break,here breathe the first stroke of sea spray
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 275 posts since 20 Aug, 2003
Yo, Grotman, thanks! (I'm so new to this, even to the people listening/liking...) The stuff that comes in there is first an EP patch I've tweaked from Big Tick's Rhino 2.0, and then the counter-melody to that, that descends eventually into the bass region, is a patch I programmed on VirSyn Tera 2.0.grotman wrote:love it....
I actually think the sounds that come in at about 3:40 tineish are fantastic and the way they morph into the percussive elements is very outlandish....
Horns Up
Look, I plan to get a lot better at this, but I'm getting a lot of encouragement at this point! Glad to bring some music your way...
Cheers,
Envoy
the dreamer that remains . . .
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- KVRist
- 75 posts since 25 Feb, 2004
this is going into the favorites of kvr folder. good job.
- tucker
- tucker
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 275 posts since 20 Aug, 2003
Yow - seriously? Not bad for a first piece posted! Thanks, and I'm glad it was something you enjoyed. I just decided: since the dance premiered yesterday, the dancers gave me a lovely Tibetan prayer bowl. I think I'm going to make a short piece for them using only the bowl, it's rattan resting mat, and wooden striker as the only sound sources.tuckermc wrote:this is going into the favorites of kvr folder. good job.
Cheers,
Envoy
the dreamer that remains . . .
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- KVRAF
- 1930 posts since 29 Aug, 2003 from Austin, TX
You are not supposed to strike it, you are supposed to rub the stick around the bowl like you would a crystal wine glass with your finger, the bowl will start to vibrate/sing.envoy wrote:Yow - seriously? Not bad for a first piece posted! Thanks, and I'm glad it was something you enjoyed. I just decided: since the dance premiered yesterday, the dancers gave me a lovely Tibetan prayer bowl. I think I'm going to make a short piece for them using only the bowl, it's rattan resting mat, and wooden striker as the only sound sources.tuckermc wrote:this is going into the favorites of kvr folder. good job.
Cheers,
Envoy
Enjoy! Riley
