Need advice on mix...no synths involved. A rock/screamo tune

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Hi All.

I have done numerous projects on my own that included many more instruments than this, BUT I need some advice in the direction of this mix.

This is/was my first full session with a full band that did not include me. Unfortunantly there are alot of timing issues (especially with guitars being in sync) but time was limited, and they arent very tight as a band.

They are a hard rock/screamo band.


Im pretty happy with it, but I could really use some fresh ears to give it a listen to see what you think. (I know the vocals need to be leveled out a little more)

If this helps, this is what I had to work with:
My main interface is an Edirol UA-1000.
A pretty budget setup including various mics (AKG C460 SDC, MXL v57m LDC, Audix i5, A superlux 7pc drum mic set)
I have plugs of various sorts including Waves and PSP Vintage Warmer, but I seem to be grabbing for my trusty old Kjarehus Classic series.
I monitor through Samson Resolv 65a's

Im open to all sorts of suggestions. I know you learn from doing, so I am doing. I have lots and lots of stuff going on plugin wise, some may sound awful...like I said...its my first attempt.


http://www.aisd.net/crow/goodbye.mp3 - THIS is my current version of the mix

Thanks
-Jeff
Last edited by will.record.for.food on Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hi there...

First of all how did you record the band? all live, drums first, bass first,....? sometimes the order in which you lay down tracks can really help the artist depending on what they want to hear. But "generally" speaking it is usually easier if you can get a good solid drum or bass line layed down, because then there is something for everything else to follow rather than everybody trying to lead the way. Plus it can really help to pin point which inst. part is out of sync. One thing I have learned from my personal experience of recording is that if you are going to dish out $$$ for a recording studio the band really needs to be able to play there stuff with there eyes closed. In a typical live situation everybody can benefit by cueing off of each other, but if you are layign down track by track typically all you have to go by is what you hear in the head phones, this is where having the sold drum or bass track comes in, to some people this can make a HUGE difference good or bad. Im sure you probably already know that eq. or plugins can HELP smoothe out the rough edges but when it comes to timing, that is the responsibility of the guys/gals performing. No matter how good or bad is sounds it will still be out of sync :)

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I did this sort of for my benefit and to help a friend. I recorded them for free, so I am not going to worry about little details in timing (We're done with that anyway, and the playing is out of my hands).

Im more concerned on the quality of the mix. I just dont know if it sounds ok, or what needs to be changed. Ive referenced it with a few CD's but like I said, fresh ears would be of great benefit

thanks
-Jeff

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I realize that the playing is out of your hands, but what I was trying to get at was that from an engineer of producers point of view, all we can do is suggest. As far as your mix goes...for the most part I could not hear the bass or the guitars very well. Drums & vox had a pretty well rounded sound though. Maybe it was just the cheepo media speakers I have. Anyway keep it up. Experience is key. :)

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Yeah...It was drums, guitars (both at the same time) bass, then vox. Everybody tracked through the phones. Ive been involved in recording for a while, but this was the first completeley on my own.

Thanks for the tips.

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There's a big empty hole in the sound. I think your bass/drums and vocals are decently mixed, but the guitars are way too quiet, and lack any bottom end. I take it you miced amps for this? I'm no expert but it seems like turning them up and maybe boosting the lower end of the guitars would help. TBPH the guitars have a really weak tone.

In conclusion... more guitar!! ;)

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Hi

with first hearing , I can guess the main issue of the mix is where you put your Bass frequencies at the spectrom , somewhere which engineers says "Muddiness",and is arround 300kh. This kind of mix cause muddy frequencies mask all vital middle frequencies which give the song freshness and Energy, and besides prevents bottom end of bass (60~200 HZ) which is one of the main factors of this genre of music. this current mix get the audience think as if he listen to a live recording which has taken with a tape or DVcam. I suggest that you pull your bass , kick and other low tunes to the end bottom and cut the muddiness with a parametric eq. then as glugre mentioned boost middle frequencies on guitars and vocal. just a suggestion , but i think it makes things more clearer and takes the song to it's better place.

Cheers

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Thanks to all. When they showed up, they decided to bring a 2nd kick drum rather than going with just 1. The 2nd was horribly not tight (you drummers know what I mean) It sounded like somebody was kicking a cardboard box that was not fully taped up.

In attempt to compensate and focus the kick, I compressed WWWAAAYYY too much, and it muddied up ALOT of tone. Ive remixed, but I will not be able to upload until tomorrow.

Thanks for all the input.

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OK...if anybody cares to give it a listen, it is at

http://www.aisd.net/crow/goodbye_2.mp3

The orig. is still there in case anbody cared to give it a listen.

I raised guitars alot, Gave them more stereo image, Gave the vox more bite, and raised/cleaned the bass up.

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I do know that the first scream is way too quiet.

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The second mix is much better. I'd say you're pretty much on the right track now.

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Big improvement from before.......seems the hi-hat is taking away from main focus of the song, personally I feel its a bit much. :P

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For a starter I must say that I generally like it and I think you are on the right track. I usually do not comment on anything that I do not like in fear of making a fool of myself and talking about something I know nothing about.

In this case I feel that you are moving in the right direction and it has sure potential.

I was a bit late for round 1, so I'll comment on round 2 only. I agree that the hi hat is too much. Bring it down in the mix just enough to be audible. The rhythm guitar needs to come up even more. There is still a considerable hole in the mix. That distorted heavy metal vocal effect sounds a bit weak without a backing with a good bass & mid. Bring the snare and kick drum up on the bass side it give it more oomf. I would add a considerable amount of compression on the drums as well.

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thank you guys.

Ill see what I can do about that hat. I do have some tom mics on that I used to give more of a roomy feel to the kit...that wasnt the plan, but the guy didnt hit the toms at all except for a part in one chorus of ONE song...I will have to wait until I get home from work, but off the top of my head the hat is coming from this or bleed from the snare mic. He had the hat directly behind the snare (from his point of view) smack dab in the center of the kit.

Sepheritoh, Ill play with it and see what I can do with the bottom end of the mix. The kick drum sounded pretty awful. I should have just busted out my tuning wrench and fixed it, but hey, its not my kit. I had to do ALOT of EQing and compression to make the 2nd kick sound like a kick. Ill play with it, but Im afraid the more I push the kick, the more that compressed sound will fill the bottom end.

There is also a delay on the end of a scream in the middle of the song before the "break". I like the way it sounds, but do you think it would be better suited towards the end of the song, or should I do it more than once. It seems like it would get more gimmicky the more I used it...thoughts???

Im almost there on the mix. I know they will like it alot. After Im done Ill give them a few days to listen, and unless they have something they really dont like, Ill leave it as it is.

Thanks again for your input, you dont know how much it helps.

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The second mix is a considerable improvement from the first, I agree that the guitars seem to be almost lacking something and I'm not sure if it's just volume, maybe try some different EQ's or distortions if they were recorded semi-clean.

One thing that is hurting the song is the singer, for "Screamo" he just doesn't have much of a scream, and you can tell he is really holding back on his vocal and not projecting to the point that it is making him come of flat and off-key a bit, I know you don't want to bury him in the mix or anything, but you might try pulling the vocal back just a tad to try to mask it, this is just to "my ear" he sounds like he's out front a little nekkid.

The bass and drums sound pretty damned good to me, hat might be a little loud but i don't think it takes away from the mix, for that type of tune it seems to drive it pretty well.

The only other thing that sticks out some to me is that double lead in the middle of the piece sounds a tad out of tune, i wouldn't put it on the guitars anywhere else in the song as that is the only place they stand out of tune a bit, but I might try some kind of chorus/flange effect on just that piece to see if it might cover it up a bit, however, if they're out of tune in the studio chances are they're not tuning freaks during rehearsels and that part probably sounds whip ass to them...;)

All in all I think it sounds pretty good for what it sounds like you had to work with...all of the things that really glare badly are performance issues and not your end of it...you're definitely on the right track.

L8.

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