Need advice on mix...no synths involved. A rock/screamo tune
-
will.record.for.food will.record.for.food https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=47978
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 14 Nov, 2004 from TX
Thank you very much...I really appreciate all of you guys helping me out with this big project for me.
-
- KVRAF
- 1740 posts since 6 Jan, 2004 from USA
well, you definitely have your work cut out for you recording and mixing this band. the second mix sounds waaaaaaay better than the first and i think you did very well considering what you have to work with.
it's a very strange sound for the type of song that is or is trying to be. the guitars are bothering me the most. they sound terribly weak and thin, but the bulk of that sound has to come from the guitarists and their setup, not much you can do if you have a bad sound to begin with.
drums sound ok. you said you had to really tweak the kick to get it to sound good. during some of the double kick parts it sounds a bit weak, but other than that pretty good. hi-hat is a bit too loud for me and i know some others said that as well.
bass guitar isn't that strong. i can't tell if it's the way it's played or the eqing/compression, but again, if you have a bad sound to begin with, there's only so much you can do on your end.
vocals are mixed pretty good. out of key at times, but nothing terrible.
again, i think you did well for what you had to work with. the band itself really needs to get a tighter sound and a guitar sound with balls if they're going to do a "rock/screamo" track.
lates
t-willy
it's a very strange sound for the type of song that is or is trying to be. the guitars are bothering me the most. they sound terribly weak and thin, but the bulk of that sound has to come from the guitarists and their setup, not much you can do if you have a bad sound to begin with.
drums sound ok. you said you had to really tweak the kick to get it to sound good. during some of the double kick parts it sounds a bit weak, but other than that pretty good. hi-hat is a bit too loud for me and i know some others said that as well.
bass guitar isn't that strong. i can't tell if it's the way it's played or the eqing/compression, but again, if you have a bad sound to begin with, there's only so much you can do on your end.
vocals are mixed pretty good. out of key at times, but nothing terrible.
again, i think you did well for what you had to work with. the band itself really needs to get a tighter sound and a guitar sound with balls if they're going to do a "rock/screamo" track.
lates
t-willy
-
will.record.for.food will.record.for.food https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=47978
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 14 Nov, 2004 from TX
Thankyou t.
When it was all said and done, the bass sounded like a drone rather than a bass. What would you suggest to beef up the guitars?
I doubled the guitar tracks and shifted them a little. The guitars have some compression, EQ and some Voxengo Boogex (very little wet though...just to give it a little differetn flavor) Ive also tried EQing (or more EQ i should say) but it usually just gets worse. Is there a freebie plug that might beef up the sound...Ive tried everything I can think of, but nothing is getting the job done. I tried Voxengos Stereo Image, Ive tried Chorus, Phaser, delays and reverbs....and alot of stuff I dont remember.
Should I try scooping more mids out of the sound? i worked on the mix alot since the last version even, but do not have it to post right now (im at work).
When it was all said and done, the bass sounded like a drone rather than a bass. What would you suggest to beef up the guitars?
I doubled the guitar tracks and shifted them a little. The guitars have some compression, EQ and some Voxengo Boogex (very little wet though...just to give it a little differetn flavor) Ive also tried EQing (or more EQ i should say) but it usually just gets worse. Is there a freebie plug that might beef up the sound...Ive tried everything I can think of, but nothing is getting the job done. I tried Voxengos Stereo Image, Ive tried Chorus, Phaser, delays and reverbs....and alot of stuff I dont remember.
Should I try scooping more mids out of the sound? i worked on the mix alot since the last version even, but do not have it to post right now (im at work).
-
- KVRAF
- 1740 posts since 6 Jan, 2004 from USA
ah, so the guitar sounds were strictly done with amp sims and no actual micing of cabinets? you prolly said that somewhere and i missed it. honestly, and this is my opinion only, there are no free amp sims that satisfy me for a heavy guitar sound. commerically, amplitube gets close and i've heard some good things about NI's guitar rig. there are tons of free ones out there and i'm sure with enough tweaking and combining you could get a good sound, but i'm too lazy to spend the time 
anyhow, the guitar sound is all subjective anyway. what i like many others probably don't and vice versa. if you're happy with it and the band is happy with it, then that's all that should matter. as far as advice on how to tweak the sound, i honestly don't know, i just tweak things like crazy myself in amplitube and get close to what i want.
good luck with things and maybe someone will chime in with better advice!
lates
t-willy
anyhow, the guitar sound is all subjective anyway. what i like many others probably don't and vice versa. if you're happy with it and the band is happy with it, then that's all that should matter. as far as advice on how to tweak the sound, i honestly don't know, i just tweak things like crazy myself in amplitube and get close to what i want.
good luck with things and maybe someone will chime in with better advice!
lates
t-willy
-
- KVRAF
- 2401 posts since 29 Dec, 2002 from In the dark
The JCM is a pretty good free amp sim, but overall I agree with what t-willy says.
-
will.record.for.food will.record.for.food https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=47978
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 14 Nov, 2004 from TX
Im sorry...The guitars were tracked throug mic'd amps. One being a Squier amp, the other a fender HR212. I then copied those tracks and moved the copied track 10-20ms and ran boogex on the copy (only at 10% wet)
-
will.record.for.food will.record.for.food https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=47978
- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 222 posts since 14 Nov, 2004 from TX
Ok...this is pretty much the final mix. Thanks to all that have helped out.
I told them I can still tweak some things to their liking (and am still experimenting) but I have given them a CD with the songs on it.
here is the pretty much final version:
http://www.aisd.net/crow/goodbye_3.mp3
I told them I can still tweak some things to their liking (and am still experimenting) but I have given them a CD with the songs on it.
here is the pretty much final version:
http://www.aisd.net/crow/goodbye_3.mp3
-
- KVRAF
- 1617 posts since 19 Mar, 2002 from Victoria, BC
The second mix was a definite improvement, and the third mix had the better kick/imo, but I liked the guitars in the second a bit more. How far did you have the mic from the cabs? Personally I prefer to DI guitars unless I've got most of the day to set up the amps/mics for proper tone. Not much to be done for that now, but in the future I'd say budgeting at least a solid couple hours of experimenting and taking notes (writing down amp settings, and the position/angle of the mic) is a good idea. The guitarists might not be into it, but it's worth it to have about 60 clips of different tones to listen to and get the tone just the way you want. Of course, I've only really recorded miced amps a few times, so my advice is hardly expert 
My personal experiences with bass haven't been great. It's really the bass players performance that should control his level and presence in the song, which many bass players find difficult to do without the guitar tracks in there. You can try a bit more compression on the bass to bring out the attacks, but bass is usually a difficult turd to polish
When working with bands where one of the members does the bulk of the writing, I find it easiest to record the drums first while that person plays on headphones to himself and the drummer. Tracking whatever instrument this is DI at this time can also be helpful. Then when you're doing the miced amps and vocals, everybody is following the most solid player in the band.
Anyways, like others have said, this is a decent sounding mix for what you had to work with
My personal experiences with bass haven't been great. It's really the bass players performance that should control his level and presence in the song, which many bass players find difficult to do without the guitar tracks in there. You can try a bit more compression on the bass to bring out the attacks, but bass is usually a difficult turd to polish
When working with bands where one of the members does the bulk of the writing, I find it easiest to record the drums first while that person plays on headphones to himself and the drummer. Tracking whatever instrument this is DI at this time can also be helpful. Then when you're doing the miced amps and vocals, everybody is following the most solid player in the band.
Anyways, like others have said, this is a decent sounding mix for what you had to work with
