Hello,
my name is Bruce Satinover and after a public delay I've started writing upon a small but dedicated fan base, new music found at http://artistlaunch.comp.
The CD consists, so far, of five songs meant to be listened to as one piece. When finished there will be connecting segments not included in these mixes.
I really need to know if I pulled off what I tried, which is mixing ambiences of different types, sometimes intertwining with one another. Two songs are used as demos for Rhino 2 and Blue, the 3rd a demo of EWQLSO Gold XP and EW/QL Symphonic Choirs. Other tracks feature many of the soft synths and effects we work with. Track 4 has a Country/Jazz guitar part using MAX/MSP and Pluggo 3.5 along with EastWest's Morphology and QuantumLeap's Altered States.
The thing is, this might seem like heavy shit to some, or just a bunch of shit to others. It is sincere and has principles of music important to me and relevent to musicians of all types. But I'd be lying if I said it was anything other than ambient with some rhythmic ideas you'd like on tracks 2 and 5, orchestral abstract on track 3 and very serious intentions about music in general on tracks 1 and 4.
I haven't been around KVR much but have listened to many tracks by others and request you give this 27 or so minutes of songs in total a try. I left notes about what was happening in each song and the philosophy behind it.
I used to do this for a living but do it only to make a point or to have fun, these tracks are more didactic than entertaining for me. But for you?....
They are numbered and found at http://artistlaunch.com/satinover
I'm trying to see if I'm making sense to anyone besides me. If you approach it with an open mind I think you might find it worth your time.
Thanks,
Bruce
A request if you have the time and patience
-
- I'm American, I have rights!
- Topic Starter
- 414 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from x_World
Reviews http://www.musicfaq.net
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
I am taking notes as I listen, though as per your request I'll listen more later when I'm sitting in front of a better system. My initial impressions as a way to tag your post.
1) Electromagnetical Poles
First of all the sound quality of this is ridiculous. You must have quite the setup.
Whatever that noise is burbling when the mutant country guitar comes in is lovely. Bring a huge fan of Naked City and the like I find this rather listener-friendly so my taste in matters of musical strangeness doesn't count for much.
2) Azul - the processed drums are superb, I find it hard to imagine what you are using to warp the percussion but at such high fidelity. I loathe the chimey pad in the background but the huge verb on it is certainly what gives it such a huge, cinematic feel. (I don't much like pads of any sort).
3) Pig Latin at the Bartok Memorial Choir
The oboe! Hahaha that's awesome. I'd tone down the attack on the pizicatto violas because it's realy pronounced in that reverb space. Quibbles aside, I absolutely love it!
4) Depth of field as an instrument I find to be one of the most exciting possibilities wih our newfangled digital composing tools and you have really demonstrated that incredibly well in this track. I'm going to use it as an example when trying to explain this principle to people.
5) Perhaps it's my age but this reminds me of the scenes between the action in video game adentures wy back when. Somehow both intimate & epic.
1) Electromagnetical Poles
First of all the sound quality of this is ridiculous. You must have quite the setup.
Whatever that noise is burbling when the mutant country guitar comes in is lovely. Bring a huge fan of Naked City and the like I find this rather listener-friendly so my taste in matters of musical strangeness doesn't count for much.
2) Azul - the processed drums are superb, I find it hard to imagine what you are using to warp the percussion but at such high fidelity. I loathe the chimey pad in the background but the huge verb on it is certainly what gives it such a huge, cinematic feel. (I don't much like pads of any sort).
3) Pig Latin at the Bartok Memorial Choir
The oboe! Hahaha that's awesome. I'd tone down the attack on the pizicatto violas because it's realy pronounced in that reverb space. Quibbles aside, I absolutely love it!
4) Depth of field as an instrument I find to be one of the most exciting possibilities wih our newfangled digital composing tools and you have really demonstrated that incredibly well in this track. I'm going to use it as an example when trying to explain this principle to people.
5) Perhaps it's my age but this reminds me of the scenes between the action in video game adentures wy back when. Somehow both intimate & epic.
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
-
- KVRian
- 868 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from In the foothills of the Rocky Mountains
Bruce,
You probably know that you are asking quite a lot from the casual listener here at KvR.
However, having said that I have listened to most of the 27 minutes you requested and found continuity certainly in the quality of the recordings. Fantastic. There are lots of little details in your music that I certainly appreciate. Pig Latin at the Bartok Memorial Choir is somewhat out of character with the rest of your collection in my opinion. I'm not really sold on the choir sound and maybe that has colored my opinion of the the over-all fit for the song in the collection.
I really like what you have done here and wish I could find that magic to combine different genre's even if they are all charactorizations of the "ambient" style.
You got skills brother.
Thanks for letting us in on what you are up too.
dano
You probably know that you are asking quite a lot from the casual listener here at KvR.
However, having said that I have listened to most of the 27 minutes you requested and found continuity certainly in the quality of the recordings. Fantastic. There are lots of little details in your music that I certainly appreciate. Pig Latin at the Bartok Memorial Choir is somewhat out of character with the rest of your collection in my opinion. I'm not really sold on the choir sound and maybe that has colored my opinion of the the over-all fit for the song in the collection.I really like what you have done here and wish I could find that magic to combine different genre's even if they are all charactorizations of the "ambient" style.
You got skills brother.
Thanks for letting us in on what you are up too.
dano
"In a sky full of people, only some want to fly,
Isn’t that crazy?"
Isn’t that crazy?"
-
- I'm American, I have rights!
- Topic Starter
- 414 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from x_World
Hi Dan,
it is a lot to ask of the folks here though I go back a long way and many thousand posts that seemed to have been dropped from my account. I know a lot of the people contributing here from listening, and especially a few years ago when I listened to hours of others work.
Thanks for having a go at the stuff. The classical segment has a counterbalance song not yet started and using VirSyn Cantor, my voice mucked up and resampled in Kontakt 2.
I think Symphonic Choir is a lot more emotive than anything else I've heard. I spent minimal time on the voice programming and more on articulating phrases. If folks listen they'll hear incredibly strong changes in choral feel and all of it was done in real time in a single take, something I tend to do to preserve the emotional context of everything.
Fortunately for me, I grew up with stellar players and learned from people I still respect as musicians. I got my formal training at age 37 while learning to read and write music. Performance and figuring out why things worked were the best lessons I could ask for. I'm a good guitarist thought that might not seem obvious from the songs. I am a shitty keyboardist that is able to play 80% of the stuff in with reasonable "feel". I'm one of my favorite bass players and am in love with a used, 2nd quality Warwick Rockbass which cost $240 used.
Some other instruments you'll hear later in the series are Cura Cumbis Saz, Oud, some sweet sounding hand drums and percussives including a small set of Ankglungs situated on a mic stand. I don't have most of my gear set up for acoustic recording which i may still do as I'm not a patient person when there are things to be done.
I think the orchestral mix needs fixing. runagate, has good ears. I don't know why I didn't catch it...actually, i'm 100% positive the mix is right in real sound on my KRKs and a nice tube based stereo system with passive Cambre speakers. I burned the mp3 and compared the sound, it's substantial on several areas but didn't seem as bad when using the KRKs prior to uploading. Bad decision using near-field monitors to listen to mp3 files.
btw, i have a very ordinary, modest studio. I am a sound engineer and have designed several clubs, entertainment venues and good studios.
When you hear the miked stuff things may change in term of sound quality, but I'm confident that I'll get a good set of takes. Having just moved, I'm still trying to find the best areas for recording.
Again, thanks for listening, I know its a lot to ask of anyone, but I hoped that some people would see it as a reason to discuss music and why we make it, why we do the kind we do, and so on. Perhaps if I had offered up something friendlier...though I remember there being some great discussions at this part of the forum regarding music...which was the other reason for seeing if anyone was interested. I do appreciate anyone who took tried a track or two and thank them as well.
Cheers!
it is a lot to ask of the folks here though I go back a long way and many thousand posts that seemed to have been dropped from my account. I know a lot of the people contributing here from listening, and especially a few years ago when I listened to hours of others work.
Thanks for having a go at the stuff. The classical segment has a counterbalance song not yet started and using VirSyn Cantor, my voice mucked up and resampled in Kontakt 2.
I think Symphonic Choir is a lot more emotive than anything else I've heard. I spent minimal time on the voice programming and more on articulating phrases. If folks listen they'll hear incredibly strong changes in choral feel and all of it was done in real time in a single take, something I tend to do to preserve the emotional context of everything.
Fortunately for me, I grew up with stellar players and learned from people I still respect as musicians. I got my formal training at age 37 while learning to read and write music. Performance and figuring out why things worked were the best lessons I could ask for. I'm a good guitarist thought that might not seem obvious from the songs. I am a shitty keyboardist that is able to play 80% of the stuff in with reasonable "feel". I'm one of my favorite bass players and am in love with a used, 2nd quality Warwick Rockbass which cost $240 used.
Some other instruments you'll hear later in the series are Cura Cumbis Saz, Oud, some sweet sounding hand drums and percussives including a small set of Ankglungs situated on a mic stand. I don't have most of my gear set up for acoustic recording which i may still do as I'm not a patient person when there are things to be done.
I think the orchestral mix needs fixing. runagate, has good ears. I don't know why I didn't catch it...actually, i'm 100% positive the mix is right in real sound on my KRKs and a nice tube based stereo system with passive Cambre speakers. I burned the mp3 and compared the sound, it's substantial on several areas but didn't seem as bad when using the KRKs prior to uploading. Bad decision using near-field monitors to listen to mp3 files.
btw, i have a very ordinary, modest studio. I am a sound engineer and have designed several clubs, entertainment venues and good studios.
When you hear the miked stuff things may change in term of sound quality, but I'm confident that I'll get a good set of takes. Having just moved, I'm still trying to find the best areas for recording.
Again, thanks for listening, I know its a lot to ask of anyone, but I hoped that some people would see it as a reason to discuss music and why we make it, why we do the kind we do, and so on. Perhaps if I had offered up something friendlier...though I remember there being some great discussions at this part of the forum regarding music...which was the other reason for seeing if anyone was interested. I do appreciate anyone who took tried a track or two and thank them as well.
Cheers!
Reviews http://www.musicfaq.net
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
Ach, friendlier? Pshaw!
Somehow you have made me sound Belgian.
It's reasuring to know that the reason that your production values are 12,000x better than everything else I've listened to in the last week on the net is that you know what you're doing.
Would you mind terribly if I burn your songs to a CD? I'd like to use them as examples of what's possible with in-the-box composition nowadays. There's more than a few things that you do a lot better than what I've made or what I've found to demonstrate some points to the several dozen musicians I've haranguing.
Most don't believe that even something so simple as using animated or midi-controlled effects on stage live with a laptop useful or easy.
Too bad I'm young enough to have my production & mixing aesthetic hopelessly warped by Gravediggaz, John Zorn & Mike Patton. I've got the ears but always need to go to other people & their monitoring systems to check if anything I'm doing makes sense. You mixes sound like the 4 million dollar version of the person who taught me & handed me the Master Accoustician's Handbook, the Sound Reinforcement Manual and piles of Sound On Sound, TapeOp & Electronic Musician. I wish I could send him to your site to check out your songs but I don't think he's got the hang of email yet.
I'll stop there for the time being; we are quite prolix.
Somehow you have made me sound Belgian.
It's reasuring to know that the reason that your production values are 12,000x better than everything else I've listened to in the last week on the net is that you know what you're doing.
Would you mind terribly if I burn your songs to a CD? I'd like to use them as examples of what's possible with in-the-box composition nowadays. There's more than a few things that you do a lot better than what I've made or what I've found to demonstrate some points to the several dozen musicians I've haranguing.
Most don't believe that even something so simple as using animated or midi-controlled effects on stage live with a laptop useful or easy.
Too bad I'm young enough to have my production & mixing aesthetic hopelessly warped by Gravediggaz, John Zorn & Mike Patton. I've got the ears but always need to go to other people & their monitoring systems to check if anything I'm doing makes sense. You mixes sound like the 4 million dollar version of the person who taught me & handed me the Master Accoustician's Handbook, the Sound Reinforcement Manual and piles of Sound On Sound, TapeOp & Electronic Musician. I wish I could send him to your site to check out your songs but I don't think he's got the hang of email yet.
I'll stop there for the time being; we are quite prolix.
-
- KVRian
- 868 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from In the foothills of the Rocky Mountains
Hey Bruce,
You have some fantastic stuff there and despite the length of it, I'm certainly not discouraging anyone from listening but more of heads up that if people aren't responding, it's not because of the quality of the music!
I think a lot like you do in that there is more to music and songs than mixes and sound. (Although when you get that right and the song is good, you have a winner.
)
The music there is very thought provoking and intriguing. To have started formal training when you were almost 40 is amazing.
Friendlier???...I didn't take anything you said as unfriendly. It's guys like you that make this forum so damn interesting.
Keep up the great work....maybe you can help me out some time...I could use some of your expertise!
Cheers,
dano
You have some fantastic stuff there and despite the length of it, I'm certainly not discouraging anyone from listening but more of heads up that if people aren't responding, it's not because of the quality of the music!
I think a lot like you do in that there is more to music and songs than mixes and sound. (Although when you get that right and the song is good, you have a winner.
)The music there is very thought provoking and intriguing. To have started formal training when you were almost 40 is amazing.
Friendlier???...I didn't take anything you said as unfriendly. It's guys like you that make this forum so damn interesting.
Keep up the great work....maybe you can help me out some time...I could use some of your expertise!
Cheers,
dano
"In a sky full of people, only some want to fly,
Isn’t that crazy?"
Isn’t that crazy?"
-
- I'm American, I have rights!
- Topic Starter
- 414 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from x_World
I'd be happy to help out if I can and appreciate the bump up attempts.
I used to write to those I listened to but honestly, there's only so much time in the day and my time is more important than it was prior to being ill.
What training I got via the university was somewhat offset with midi still being new, especially with computers. Most of my coursework were practicums and grant money that required I work at the uni. Fortunately, I snagged a gig at the midi lab which got me into practicums that included me teaching in the lab. But in all honesty, I think the university got a motivated person to do a ton of research and teaching just to get people to work with for performance work.
That was probably the nicest part of returning to school. Concert grade pianists and other artists wanted to work in a quarterly concert series I started while there and the midi lab was considered a hot spot on campus if you needed music.
So the other students came to us as in-house artists and I traded the use of the video department for access to 3D effects which we had at my prior job. I finished my studies at the right time, I'd gotten sick of classical artists, especially the ones that were hired to fill in the orchestra or came to perform.
School was a good place to make contacts and I did learn, and have since lapsed out of reading music. I did more concerts than any student they'd had and always had a crew of other composers I'd invite.
I grew up enjoying working with others but realize I am a snob in my own right and don't have a problem with that. It wasn't like I was disrespectful or unwilling to help others but the truth is there are more people that take in the music world than share or give.
I don't like those types and surprise, they don't usually like me. Some people find it objectionable to listen to anything they have little or no experience with. If anyone went and had a few listens, if they picked anything up from what I wanted to accomplish, then good.
I really appreciate the interest shown by you two and would be happy to help you if I can.
I used to write to those I listened to but honestly, there's only so much time in the day and my time is more important than it was prior to being ill.
What training I got via the university was somewhat offset with midi still being new, especially with computers. Most of my coursework were practicums and grant money that required I work at the uni. Fortunately, I snagged a gig at the midi lab which got me into practicums that included me teaching in the lab. But in all honesty, I think the university got a motivated person to do a ton of research and teaching just to get people to work with for performance work.
That was probably the nicest part of returning to school. Concert grade pianists and other artists wanted to work in a quarterly concert series I started while there and the midi lab was considered a hot spot on campus if you needed music.
So the other students came to us as in-house artists and I traded the use of the video department for access to 3D effects which we had at my prior job. I finished my studies at the right time, I'd gotten sick of classical artists, especially the ones that were hired to fill in the orchestra or came to perform.
School was a good place to make contacts and I did learn, and have since lapsed out of reading music. I did more concerts than any student they'd had and always had a crew of other composers I'd invite.
I grew up enjoying working with others but realize I am a snob in my own right and don't have a problem with that. It wasn't like I was disrespectful or unwilling to help others but the truth is there are more people that take in the music world than share or give.
I don't like those types and surprise, they don't usually like me. Some people find it objectionable to listen to anything they have little or no experience with. If anyone went and had a few listens, if they picked anything up from what I wanted to accomplish, then good.
I really appreciate the interest shown by you two and would be happy to help you if I can.
Reviews http://www.musicfaq.net
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
-
- KVRian
- 868 posts since 2 Jan, 2003 from In the foothills of the Rocky Mountains
bump....
dano
dano
"In a sky full of people, only some want to fly,
Isn’t that crazy?"
Isn’t that crazy?"
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
U.S. dayime bump
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
vtx wrote: umm, picture from the bathroom....?...
-
- I'm American, I have rights!
- Topic Starter
- 414 posts since 13 Mar, 2002 from x_World
vtx, yes, the bathroom which I spend far more time than I wish I had to spend. Mostly time for health purposes, no one would be musically thrilled listening to the exact reason.
Sorry for not responding sooner but I've been getting a lot of things done.
Learned (sort of):
Zoom MRS-8 8 track digital recorder
uses SD RAM cards up to 1 gb though I'm using a 512 mb for the time being. Prior to this little guy I never used a hardware digital recorder and virtual tracks, controls like pan, eq, effects are in the software. It took me some time reading the various button presses to operate it.
PLUS - has a ok drum machine in it and does a bass track as well, though I don't care for it. It's tiny! It's about the size of a Roland RM7 or DR5. Both are ancient drum machines. It can run on batteries for 4 hours and has one balanced XLR input. Has a stereo mixdown track that isn't part of the recording system and the drums (and bass if used) are free virtual tracks, as are the midi out tracks if you use this with a rack or tabletop synth. I'll probably use it with the Alesis Micron for any synth stuff that should help save on mixing to active tracks.
NEGATIVE - hard to read because I'm closing in on 50 and can't see without 'reading' glasses, lots of button pushing but reasonably short for doing lots of tracks.
HEY!!! musicFAQ is finally updated!!!
http://musicfaq.net
look for a lot of new articles and reviews, both past due and brand new. I'm proud of the work so many people have made to get us back running again.
NEW GUITARS IN THE FAMILY:
Parker PM20
Parker P42
things were going great and I love Parker's inexpensive guitars. btw, even 2 "p" series guitars are less expensive than a Parker Fly M, the least expensive U.S. made guitar. It's just not worth the extra money. I used to play a P32 with swamp ash and maple...just like a fat strat but with a piezo bridge pickup. How I hated selling it...
BASS LOSS IN THE FAMILY:
to quote in the style of Dark City, "Mr Bass is gone.", "Oh no! Poor Mr Bass.", "How did it cleave itself?", "I don't know, but it seems to know tuning."
not funny at all, but the dialog is even less funny if you don't know the film, Dark City.
It will be missed. I live alone so how it broke is a mystery. It was my favorite bass and hasn't a backup...thus the mourning of late.
Thanks for the nice comments. If anyone has a good bass and would take a emu PK6 with extra ROMS of Xtreme Lead 2, Siedleszeck Orchestra (just ensembles, not solo instruments, until EWQLSO Gold Plus it was my number one orchestral percussion kit and the Xtreme Lead 2 ROM my favorite synth library - even with all existing sampled synths....
Sorry for not responding sooner but I've been getting a lot of things done.
Learned (sort of):
Zoom MRS-8 8 track digital recorder
uses SD RAM cards up to 1 gb though I'm using a 512 mb for the time being. Prior to this little guy I never used a hardware digital recorder and virtual tracks, controls like pan, eq, effects are in the software. It took me some time reading the various button presses to operate it.
PLUS - has a ok drum machine in it and does a bass track as well, though I don't care for it. It's tiny! It's about the size of a Roland RM7 or DR5. Both are ancient drum machines. It can run on batteries for 4 hours and has one balanced XLR input. Has a stereo mixdown track that isn't part of the recording system and the drums (and bass if used) are free virtual tracks, as are the midi out tracks if you use this with a rack or tabletop synth. I'll probably use it with the Alesis Micron for any synth stuff that should help save on mixing to active tracks.
NEGATIVE - hard to read because I'm closing in on 50 and can't see without 'reading' glasses, lots of button pushing but reasonably short for doing lots of tracks.
HEY!!! musicFAQ is finally updated!!!
http://musicfaq.net
look for a lot of new articles and reviews, both past due and brand new. I'm proud of the work so many people have made to get us back running again.
NEW GUITARS IN THE FAMILY:
Parker PM20
Parker P42
things were going great and I love Parker's inexpensive guitars. btw, even 2 "p" series guitars are less expensive than a Parker Fly M, the least expensive U.S. made guitar. It's just not worth the extra money. I used to play a P32 with swamp ash and maple...just like a fat strat but with a piezo bridge pickup. How I hated selling it...
BASS LOSS IN THE FAMILY:
to quote in the style of Dark City, "Mr Bass is gone.", "Oh no! Poor Mr Bass.", "How did it cleave itself?", "I don't know, but it seems to know tuning."
not funny at all, but the dialog is even less funny if you don't know the film, Dark City.
It will be missed. I live alone so how it broke is a mystery. It was my favorite bass and hasn't a backup...thus the mourning of late.
Thanks for the nice comments. If anyone has a good bass and would take a emu PK6 with extra ROMS of Xtreme Lead 2, Siedleszeck Orchestra (just ensembles, not solo instruments, until EWQLSO Gold Plus it was my number one orchestral percussion kit and the Xtreme Lead 2 ROM my favorite synth library - even with all existing sampled synths....
Reviews http://www.musicfaq.net
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
Selected tracks from new album TRAUMA :
http://netnewmusic.ning.com/profile/BSatinover
-
- KVRAF
- 10234 posts since 17 Sep, 2004 from Austin, TX
-
- KVRist
- 148 posts since 26 Mar, 2005
Bruce Nice work no more words needed!
http://www.tecquilarecordings.be
http://www.tecquilarecordings.be
