Kingston shows stadium sized rock sound, and a secret!

[Kingston]

Well house/techno/club kicks are another thing entirely. We're only talking about the single most important instrument in the mix. With snares and basses there's more room for panning tricks, especially with creative layering/shaping.

With a basic rock mix of my preference the drums take up a lot of the space, no matter how unrealistic. With this in mind I like to give the snare and kick some room to breathe.

As a sidenote, this mix has two snare mics and two kick mics, all in use. I can't remember the exact panning, but generally kick is more to the left and snare to right. The "boom/thunk" mic of the kick is very near center, but the "snap/bite" is panned 20-30% further. Same with snare but leaning right. A nice big space for the most important rhythm instruments. Keeping this all in mind the vocals are the only thing dead center (ie. the most important track). You can do these things and still retain perfect mono compatibility, but when played in stereo, the mix breathes better.

Generally the "big things" are sitting center, so it should be no problem even in clubs. It was all mixed with mono compatibility in mind as well(try it).

I also really like the (forced) hardpanning of the old. That's why the chorus brass and guitar sound like they do (among a few other instruments). I think it works, some don't.

[thenumber23]

Wow, really cool song! I like the chord progression and unique orchestration tied together with a fresh song structure.

It reminded me of a Tears for Fears song called Sowing the Seeds of Love, which was unique in its way to unify a theme with a lot of action happening throughout the song.

Brian

[Kingston]

thanks.

"Seeds of Love" was a massive hit in it's day.. I was a wee nipper back then and only discovered tears for fears quite recently. I started liking it as soon as I started to ignore the awful eighties sounds in all of their productions. Their songs are generally great.

[rockstar_not]

thanks.

"Seeds of Love" was a massive hit in it's day.. I was a wee nipper back then and only discovered tears for fears quite recently. I started liking it as soon as I started to ignore the awful eighties sounds in all of their productions. Their songs are generally great.

Careful Kingston - some of us actually liked some of those 'awful eighties sounds'; those of us that were not nippers at the time. Some of those sounds still bring back the best memories.

For a KVRian that does a great job with remanufacturing the 80's sound in a good way, listen to 1-2Many's February KVR song contest entry.

-Scott

[Kingston]

Trust, me as an open minded producer I have had to try to like the eighties. I've done some serious research on how they did things back then and I'm definitely not ignoring any of it.

But the reason for such extensive background research was that I now know really well what NOT to do, production-wise. That's how much I don't like the sound of the eighties (especially mid and late). There are rare exceptions, even full albums, but not many.

This is all very IMHO. And saying nothing about the actual song content, or artistic talents of those days.

[rockstar_not]

My favorite 80s albums:

Anything associated with Brian Eno (U2 Unforgettable Fire, his collaboration with brother Roger and Daniel Lanois - in my top 25 albums of all time, Ambient series)

Other early 80's U2 (Boy, October, War)

Talking Heads - earlier stuff

Some 80's rap like Fresh Prince and DJ Jazzy Jeff, Grandmaster Flash & FF

Devo

Kraftwerk

The Cars

Some Pat Benatar

Til Tuesday

Cowboy Junkies

Even some Bruce Springsteen

Early Van Halen

Not ashamed to admit to any of those choices of 80's sounds that still would be welcome today to my ears.

-Scott

[bduffy]

thanks.

"Seeds of Love" was a massive hit in it's day.. I was a wee nipper back then and only discovered tears for fears quite recently. I started liking it as soon as I started to ignore the awful eighties sounds in all of their productions. Their songs are generally great.

I don't get it: is "Seeds of Love" 80's production? It's supposed to be 60's production...I would agree with anyone that "Mother's Talk" was certainly 80'
s production, but that song is kind of the opposite of their previous sound...I don't get that comment.

I'm just curious (and totally biased, they're one of my favourite bands), not meaning to be confrontational or anything.

At any rate, you might like their new album, which is a wonder of multitrack, retro-style production and great songwriting. It's an excellent album, once you get over the 60's/70's production!

[Kingston]

I don't get it: is "Seeds of Love" 80's production? It's supposed to be 60's production...I would agree with anyone that "Mother's Talk" was certainly 80'
s production, but that song is kind of the opposite of their previous sound...I don't get that comment.

I'm just curious (and totally biased, they're one of my favourite bands), not meaning to be confrontational or anything.

Let's see now, (just listening to the track, I like it of course)



Overblown "separately tuned 80's studio reverb on everything". Check!

Cheesy 80's synths all over the place, aka DX7, roland D series. Check!

80's high pitched hair/spandex male vocals with lots of washing hall/plate reverb. Check!

SSL sound with too much mix production reeking on every corner. Check!

Too clean and not daring transparent track compression on EVERYTHING. Check!

Synth flutes. Check!

General cleaniness and ballslessness (is that a word?) of sound. Check!

Over production and instrumentation that went too far, ie. opera singers. Check!




But wait, there's a vocoder too, although far too sparingly used,






which was nice.



Anyway.

[shamann]

There was a vocoder on Seeds of Love? My memory of the song must be sketchier than I first thought.

Where'd your track get to? I'm getting an unreachable error.

[Kingston]

Sorry, seems there was trouble with the server. Here it is, updated the initial post too.


Where Have All the Hippies Gone

[bduffy]

I don't get it: is "Seeds of Love" 80's production? It's supposed to be 60's production...I would agree with anyone that "Mother's Talk" was certainly 80'
s production, but that song is kind of the opposite of their previous sound...I don't get that comment.

I'm just curious (and totally biased, they're one of my favourite bands), not meaning to be confrontational or anything.

Let's see now, (just listening to the track, I like it of course)



Overblown "separately tuned 80's studio reverb on everything". Check!

Cheesy 80's synths all over the place, aka DX7, roland D series. Check!

80's high pitched hair/spandex male vocals with lots of washing hall/plate reverb. Check!

SSL sound with too much mix production reeking on every corner. Check!

Too clean and not daring transparent track compression on EVERYTHING. Check!

Synth flutes. Check!

General cleaniness and ballslessness (is that a word?) of sound. Check!

Over production and instrumentation that went too far, ie. opera singers. Check!
But wait, there's a vocoder too, although far too sparingly used,
which was nice.
Anyway.

OK, I can pretty much understand most of that, but "hair-spandex"??? I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone who would throw TFF in the "hair-spandex" category. It sounds more like you're describing "Europe" than "Tears for Fears"....

But I think this underscores the difference in our ages, come to think of it. I'm sure everything produced in the 80's has a certain, homogenous tone to you - just like I thought about the 60's and 70's when I was a teenager in the 80's - so I get it. Personally, I can't imagine the song being produced any other way, but I was a hardcore big-british-band junkie in the 80's. Guess I dig the SSL sound!

That being said, I liked your production. I thought it sounded kinda big and british...

[Lunch Money]

Tears For Fears were/are (I guess) great! No way are they about hair or spandex...! Weird.

I quite enjoyed Sowing the Seeds, too, except for the synth horns. Ick.

[AndrewSimon]

Great song.
BRAVO

(by the way it's a more interesting song then Seeds of Love)

The only thing I don't like is the ending.
Even though it's over 4 minutes, the song feels short (a good thing) and it ends suddenly. (especially compared to the long intro)
A great song like this deserves a long powerful ending.
As mentioned before, a guitar solo in the middle or even at the end (Hotel California style) would make it even greater.

[Kingston]

thanks AndrewSimon.

to elaborate my hair/spandex slip up (I mean the one on this thread, not the one a few years back, I was young and needed the money!)

I was just describing the vocal tone, the style of singing back then. I suppose TFF only covers the hair part of it.

Guess I dig the SSL sound! Laughing

That being said, I liked your production. I thought it sounded kinda big and british... Scared

Well there's the modern SSL sound (big league pop hits of today, and most r'n'b), and there's the 80's SSL sound, a not so subtle difference.

big and british.. well that pretty much covers my intentions. thanks.

[bduffy]

thanks AndrewSimon.

to elaborate my hair/spandex slip up (I mean the one on this thread, not the one a few years back, I was young and needed the money!)

I was just describing the vocal tone, the style of singing back then. I suppose TFF only covers the hair part of it.

Guess I dig the SSL sound! Laughing

That being said, I liked your production. I thought it sounded kinda big and british... Scared

Well there's the modern SSL sound (big league pop hits of today, and most r'n'b), and there's the 80's SSL sound, a not so subtle difference.

big and british.. well that pretty much covers my intentions. thanks.

Well, there ya go. Modern vs 80's SSL...hmmm...I'll take 'em both.