KVR Audio

tranel · Post by **tranel** » Mon May 22, 2006 7:02 am

>>>> Please, for the topic below, try to give factual and objective answers. Please try and stick to the topic, I don't want to sift through a zillion "It was ***t"-posts to get some solid, useful info. Many thanks! <<<<

I love making music, but people sometimes say my work is stuck in a 1980s timewarp. It's just my age, I guess. But it kind of made me wondering exactly what this meant, which in turn is why I am posting here:

1) Haircuts and (seriously) dodgy fashion aside, what would you say characterized pop/synth pop music in the 1980s (not so much about lyrics, more about arrangements/production)? Are there any common traits / sounds that span most/many musical styles?

2) As for my own noodlings (funk/electronica with a slight cinematic/ ambient/ethnic twist), what can I do to avoid the 80s-sound? Any simple tricks, I don't want to completely leave my style!

Of course, I myself can hear the distinctiveness of 80s music, but it is difficult to pinpoint exactly, I think. It would be interesting to hear your answers.

Regards,

Tranel

garyp · Post by **garyp** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:00 am

What made the 80's so distinctive was the sudden boom in technology allowed just about anyone with enough cash to buy a cheap monosynth (Roland SH101 for my sins) and a drum machine to start making their own musical creations. Just as the punk explosion in the 70's spawned some iconic musical influences - The Pistols, Ramones, The Jam, The Clash etc the 80's gave those with a wide eyed fascination for technology and musicians with a slightly more lyrical and melodic leaning a chance to be creative.

The 80's was the last great industrial revolution - it gave us VCR's, personal computers, the walkman, synthesizers (thank you god!) and opened up the way for teenage kids who didn't want to join a band and bash out three chords on an old guitar to become musicians in their own right.

As a music fan who grew up listening to the likes of Depeche Mode, Ultravox, OMD, New Order, Talk Talk and possibly one of the most underrated bands of the decade - Japan - I can honestly say that in my opinion the 80's was the most creative period in the UK's musical history since the invention of electricity!

Quite a statement I know, but those music snobs who would have you believe that the decade was all about image (e.g. bad haircuts and new romantics) seem to have overlooked the fact that these bands contained some of the most truly gifted and original musicians to ever come from the UK.

Midge Ure from Ultravox, Bernard and Hooky from New order, originally Vince Clarke and then Martin Gore and Dave Gahan from Depeche Mode, Andy McCluskey and Paul Humphreys from OMD, Mick Karn and David Sylvian from Japan, plus others including Heaven 17, Echo & the bunnymen and Pete Murphy to name a few.

What they did was to merge simple catchy melodies with complex electronic based rhythms and create a new hybrid form of musical expression.

Anyone who thinks the 80's was all "cheezy pop songs" & didn't produce some truly excellent music should take a listen to some of the following and tell me who is making better music today?

Souvenir by OMD
Blue Monday by New Order
Everything Counts by Depeche Mode
Talk Talk by Talk Talk
Wouldn't it be good by Nick Kershaw
Don't go by Yazoo
Save a prayer -by Duran Duran
Shout by Tears for Fears
Leave in Silence by Depeche Mode
Lebanon by The Human League
Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics
Small Town Boy by Bronski Beat
Swing by Japan
Making Plans for Nigel by XTC
Fade to Grey by Visage
We came to dance by Ultravox
Wishing by Flock of Seagulls

I can remember reading at the time countless reviews of electronic bands, where the journalist seemed to insist that the music was "soulless" and "cold" because it didn't conform to the more traditional guitar, bass, drums and vocal quartet they were used to.

As someone who loves making electronic music for my own pleasure rather than commercial gain and sees the 80's as my natural source of creative influence, even I can recognise that relying solely upon technology to create a masterpiece is a recipe for bland and characterless music - there is already enough Euro Techno and Dance music to last a lifetime. However the same is equally true of countless modern guitar based bands who just want to rip off another Oasis riff or be the next U2, so in reality the technology is not the issue, it is the user's ability to be creative and above all strive to be original- and it doesnt matter how old you are!

I believe that those with a true love of music will naturally develop a broad spectrum of influences and open up their minds to all sorts of music from electro to ethnic in order to learn and expand their own repertoire. Therefore it is completely normal for some of those influences to become woven into your own style. To say someone's music sounds like it is stuck in a time warp shows an amazing lack of musical appreciations especially as the 80's was so diverse and included everything from Madness to the Smiths via INXS and Gary Numan.

As one 80's devote to another - the main thing is that EVERYONE'S music sounds a bit like someone else's because we all take influences and then build on them. Eric Clapton sounds a bit like Muddy Waters but we all agree he is a musical icon so next time someone compares your music to that of the 80's I would be extremely flattered.

Cheers and "bring back Hong Kong Phooey"!

RTaylor · Post by **RTaylor** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:06 pm

garyp wrote: Souvenir by OMD
Blue Monday by New Order
Everything Counts by Depeche Mode
Talk Talk by Talk Talk
Wouldn't it be good by Nick Kershaw
Don't go by Yazoo
Save a prayer -by Duran Duran
Shout by Tears for Fears
Leave in Silence by Depeche Mode
Lebanon by The Human League
Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics
Small Town Boy by Bronski Beat
Swing by Japan
Making Plans for Nigel by XTC
Fade to Grey by Visage
We came to dance by Ultravox
Wishing by Flock of Seagulls

Seeing as I really can't add much to that... I'll just make a few adjustments {and add some seventies stuff}

Tesla Girls, Enola Gay, etc by OMD
Rio by Duran Duran
Shout by Tears for Fears
Sweet Dreams by Eurythmics
Gentlemen Take Polaroids by Japan
Making Plans for Nigel by XTC
Fade to Grey by Visage
We Stand Alone and Passing Strangers by Ultravox
I Ran by Flock of Seagulls
At Night, M, etc by the Cure
She's Lost Control, Isolation, etc by Joy division
etc...

scamme · Post by **scamme** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:18 pm

Don't get me wrong - i like '80, but most common '80s discription for me is fagg looking singers and huge amounts of reverbs. Sometimes singers with over perspiration issues (Take on me by A-ha).

Hanglow · Post by **Hanglow** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:25 pm

scamme wrote:Don't get me wrong - i like '80, but most common '80s discription for me is fagg looking singers and huge amounts of reverbs. Sometimes singers with over perspiration issues (Take on me by A-ha).

in twenty years time there will be someone saying exactly the same thing about now.

My favourite genre of music from the 80's was the NWOBHM. I like my hair metal.

RoyNoahJones · Post by **RoyNoahJones** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:30 pm

scamme wrote:Don't get me wrong - i like '80, but most common '80s discription for me is fagg looking singers and huge amounts of reverbs. Sometimes singers with over perspiration issues (Take on me by A-ha).

today's about the same, reverb's fader is lower, but where are the songs ?

RoyNoahJones · Post by **RoyNoahJones** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:35 pm

HanglowSkank wrote:
scamme wrote:Don't get me wrong - i like '80, but most common '80s discription for me is fagg looking singers and huge amounts of reverbs. Sometimes singers with over perspiration issues (Take on me by A-ha).
in twenty years time there will be someone saying exactly the same thing about now.

My favourite genre of music from the 80's was the NWOBHM. I like my hair metal.

yeah i see myself older in a retirement house, with a mug of warm milk and a blanket hassling the DJ to play me a good old benassi & dj shog

LOL

coldmachine · Post by **coldmachine** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:37 pm

some production issues include

1) frequently crap Linn programming
2) reliance on melody (often infantile)
3) Many recognisable presets (P5 and DX especially)
4) Overuse of gating
5) Spectral balance skewed to mids and hi's
6) Bass frequently weak
7) Snare and vocals frequently very prominent
8) Over use of limited arpeggiators
9) songs dominated by Fairlight page R rigidity
10)Eventide harmonisers
11)Lexicon sound
12)over use of enhancement process.
13)Roland requencers
14)SDS drums
I could go on all night but i'd end up killing myself

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:43 pm

From what I remember, the music of the 80's fell into two distinct categories:
1) Synths, synths and more synths with drum machine backing, or:
2) Guitars, guitars, and more guitars, with real 'stadium' drum backing, and overuse of that reverse snare drum sample effect.

Oh, and lots of hair.

-B

RTaylor · Post by **RTaylor** » Mon May 22, 2006 11:49 pm

BERFAB wrote:From what I remember, the music of the 80's fell into two distinct categories:
1) Synths, synths and more synths with drum machine backing, or:
2) Guitars, guitars, and more guitars, with real 'stadium' drum backing, and overuse of that reverse snare drum sample effect.

Oh, and lots of hair.

-B

Aside from a few of the more extreme folk {Flock of Seagulls and the folk with 3 foot, skinny red mohawks} I don't see a huge {hair} difference.

There was the synth/pop crossover stuff which made up most everything.

jespino2 · Post by **jespino2** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:03 am

hey tranel
why don't you post some of your songs to give you more specific help?

Jbravo · Post by **Jbravo** » Tue May 23, 2006 12:36 am

I think THE single most distinctive characteristic of 80s music was a BIG fat snare sound, with much more bass and volume than is considered normal these days...

Blank_Frank · Post by **Blank_Frank** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:29 am

I too have my weaknesses with regard to 80's pop, but I can also recognise it's shortcomings. The following spring to mind (some already mentioned):

Tinny production
Excessive reverb
Clean chorused guitars (...God I hate them!)
Fretless bass (also chorused, usually)
Simmons/Linn drums
Excessive use of exciters/enhancers
Yamaha CP70/80 piano sounds (ironically I've just bought a CP80 sample set, and I'm trying to find ways of using it a non-80's fashion!)
Yamaha DX/Waldorf PPG Wave/Roland Jupiter 8 synth sounds

Although many of the bands mentioned wrote some great pop songs, the only ones I can listen to now without flinching are the early OMD and Cure stuff, and Joy Division (thank Martin Hannett for that). Oh, and John Foxx's Ultravox! (with the exclamation mark).

Unkie Al · Post by **Unkie Al** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:54 am

The Phil Collins snare drum .... "DOOSH!"

BERFAB · Post by **BERFAB** » Tue May 23, 2006 1:57 pm

RTaylor wrote:
BERFAB wrote:From what I remember, the music of the 80's fell into two distinct categories:
1) Synths, synths and more synths with drum machine backing, or:
2) Guitars, guitars, and more guitars, with real 'stadium' drum backing, and overuse of that reverse snare drum sample effect.

Oh, and lots of hair.

-B
Aside from a few of the more extreme folk {Flock of Seagulls and the folk with 3 foot, skinny red mohawks} I don't see a huge {hair} difference.

There was the synth/pop crossover stuff which made up most everything.

Oh, come on...LOTS of hair! Annie Lennox and Sinaid O'Connor aside, the 80's had bands like VanHalen, Poison, Ratt, Bon Jovi, Autograff, Motley Crue, and on and on...
Sirius Satellite Radio has an entire station called HAIR NATION devoted exclusively to 80's bands.
And when's the last time you saw a Mullet on anyone who mattered?

-B

What characterizes 80s music?