Why can't I finish my tracks?!

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rockstar_not wrote:
Here's a track that was done all written out as described above:
Loser


-Scott
Class songwriting in best Folky Singer/Tradition! Very good recording!
You have a good voice!! Thank god there were no thougths here while hearing that the planning was done inside a sterile excel-sheet :lol:
So your method works :)
Symphony Nr.1
Meet the Cities Repair Team Unimportant laughter
music has become meaningless...we just keep doing it

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Ok, now have to have to look for ya xls :)
Symphony Nr.1
Meet the Cities Repair Team Unimportant laughter
music has become meaningless...we just keep doing it

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maybe you are being too hard on your self while you work on a certain song? Maybe you should just go through with an idea like adding parts and all even if you don't think they are good at the time and see what takes shape. I remember watching this painter on tv and his painting would look great then he started adding stuff to it and I was like nooo you are ruining it!!! But by the time he was done it was an awesome painting.
my music: http://www.alexcooperusa.com
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali

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Scott,
looked inside your sheet,
sorry, just thought - if this meant in any way as a possible tutorial 8)
it would be great to have one sheet filled with an example song-construction :)
Symphony Nr.1
Meet the Cities Repair Team Unimportant laughter
music has become meaningless...we just keep doing it

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Man, this thread has really taken off! It's nice to know I'm not alone. Hopefully this thread may help others as well.

I think people have identified several key areas.
Among them:
  • * One project at a time
    * Set some kind of limitations
    * Think outside of the loop
    * Get away from the computer
One thing I have thought about, if I may run this past you guys - perhaps instead of thinking more linearly, I should adapt my workflow (and perhaps learn some new tools and/or techniques) so that I can work more non-linearly. Cubase is good for audio tracking and even composition, because everything follows a timeline. I've never really liked this for sequencing though, since I don't really think in such a linear fashion, that's why I loop in the first place. The linear padadigm is good once one reaches the tracking and mixdown, I think. When I'm composing, I'm thinking more inside->out (or maybe bottom->top) than start->finish or left->right.

I know there are a lot of tools out there that allow one to work in such a fashion, and I've always liked the idea of algorithmic composition. Have very many of you found this to be a feasible option? From what experimenting I've done, this kind of thing seems well suited to soundscapes, ambient, noise, and other less structured forms of music, but I've seen fewer examples of it being used in music with a strong meter, such as the type I generally compose.


Okay, anyway I'm on the lookout for other options but I'm not waiting either. I've already started the first track of what I indend to be a cohesive project - could be EP, could be LP. The title is "ato ate" and I'd like to do several pieces using only the TR-808 (samples) as the original sound source and I will probably limit post-processing to delay (one send), EQ & dynamics (only in mixdown), and maybe some stereo-imaging tools. I will not work on any other musical projects until this is completed.

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The problem with modern computers is that they give you the option to save multiple projects and recall them at will, exactly as you left them (well, in theory anyway)...
i see this as a problem in as much as, back in the days when you could only work on one project at a time (i'm talking hardware mixers/synths/samplers/drum machines and outboard fx, etc) you HAD to finish the track you were working on before moving to the next one was cos' you'd never get it to sound EXACTLY the same again.
Nowadays it's really easy (and common by the posts in KVR) to have a HDD chock full of sketches of songs, but nothing finished properly.
Maybe it's a case of less is more ... i know i only get a track finished these days if i make a commitment to work ONLY on that tune ...
oh yeah ... stay off the internet too (it's so distracting, all those shiny new free plugins :shrug: ) can't live with 'em can't live without 'em :hihi:

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I really enjoy playing with randomization, unpredictable feedback loops, and algorithmic logic as compositional tools. That said, an algorithmic composition will always sound like exactly that. IMHO, these techniques are better suited for coming up with individual parts which you can integrate into your arrangements. Getting the computer to do it for you won't solve your problem, I'm afraid.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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I'm not very into the aleatoric/stochastic/generative side of algorithmic composition. It's the ability to define events implicitly and the interaction between different structures that I really like. I don't see it as a shortcut in that the idea (for me) isn't to have the computer write the music for me, it's to write music in a totally different way, by engineering it rather than composing it. Either way the music is entirely deterministic and completely dependent on the creative choices I make.

Then again I'm really just waxing philosophically about it since I haven't actually done anything like that which I can show you. But in principle I really believe in the idea. :D

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I can't argue with you there. As I said, I'm into that stuff too.

Honestly, I think your fundamental problem may be the same one we all grapple with. Its fun and immediately creative to record a bunch of tracks into an 8 bar loop. Banging away at the keyboard, turning some knobs, that's all good stuff, and you get an immediate sense of satisfaction. Everything after that is less fun and more drudgery.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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I think the immediate gratification is a part of it, for sure. My ego is struggling to rationalize something contrary to that, but it's true.

But...ahem...I'm 32 bars into a track which I feel fairly confident I will finish! I say that because I already know where the next 32 bars are headed and after that it's outro time. I'll share it once I get a complete first draft, I would really like to stress the revision process this time (In the past even with "finished" tracks I think I tended to stop prematurely) so I hope to get some good feedback.

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hy
heres a solution....get Glitch (a free idm plugin effect)
export the loop your cant get finished and load it again as wave file...now put Glitch on that audio file and adjust the parameters to your liking.....now all u have to do is automate the Seed parameter with some kind of random lfo movement (fl studio can do this) and record 10 minutes of glitch doing magic on your loop....maybe not all 10 mins will sound great but some 3 or 5 might....and here u go....cut those out and start on building a song....
of course u could put Glitch on melodies or anything u want and use those.....

try it...maybe it will help u.....

ciao

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heh i find myself in this position occasionally, but I find that taking a break from production for a few days tends to clear it up a bit.

Also, listening to as much different music (thats inspirational to me) works too. For instance, say i'm composing a vocal trance track, and i get writers block, I'll listen to some speed metal, or maybe some classical, whatever that gets me inspired, despite the opposition.

But yea, writers block can be very frustrating and sometimes depressing. Focusing on something else tends to help me, but then again, my inspiration always seems to come at the wrong time so its pretty much a matter of how inspired you are, thats all I can really say about it.

But if you think about it, you can't really explain music and the drive to create, its a pretty sub-concious thing (at least for me) so keeping yourself on the opposite side of things sometimes lets new light into what you're working on.

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rockstar_not wrote:For anyone who is interested in the excel spreadsheet I referred to for writing out song structures, I put a copy up on my website for your downloading pleasure.

Excel Spreadsheet Song Blank Template

-Scott

Now for those of you who prefer not to ever write it down, move along - nothing to see here.

I will say that this format has been very handy also to play in live bands where other players need to know where you are going with at least the chord structure.
I just found this wonderful thread again and your spreadsheet:
Thanks a lot, Scott!

Mello :)
"It dreamed itself along"

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rockstar_not wrote:For anyone who is interested in the excel spreadsheet I referred to for writing out song structures, I put a copy up on my website for your downloading pleasure.

Excel Spreadsheet Song Blank Template

-Scott

Now for those of you who prefer not to ever write it down, move along - nothing to see here.

I will say that this format has been very handy also to play in live bands where other players need to know where you are going with at least the chord structure.
I just found this wonderful thread again and your spreadsheet:
Thanks a lot, Scott!

Mello :)
"It dreamed itself along"

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one way to motivate yourself to finish tracks is to release them online and wait for reviews etc. When i was using Reason for example i finished all my tracks because i uploaded them to reasonstation to get some nice reviews. Now, i dont use Reason and i cant finish my tracks too :lol:
"man i intended to just do a minimal electro dnb track and now I got an epic orchestral intro with pipe organs and timpani and everything!ARG" - John B

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