Metal song.... Whats wrong?

Share your music, collaborate, and partake in monthly music contests.
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

Hi again.

I am producing a new track to my band cd album.

http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/track127.mp3 (song intro, no vocals yet...composing...)


With hearphones i am getting to hi's sounds....!!!!

With speakers sounds low, just fine...

I think probably its the mid-hi sounds from my guitar, maybe cut a little bit more :hihi:

Any advices??

I am testing the sound yet so..dont expect perfection....intro has some slap bass that are a little out of tempo..... Sorry


Sorry my bad english
Best regards
Brohymn
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post

Well, the first thing I notice upon listening is that you made the mp3 at too low a resolution... ok I just check ed - it's at 192 kbps and you should really poat it again but at 320 cuz 192 is bad enough to effect any analysis of the mix.

If anything I'd say the problem is more holistic...
The bass has too much middle and not enough high.
The mix is so bass-heavy that it's muddy.I know guitar sounds good in metal with lows but in an overall mix with kick and bass, too, it just makes it murky and makes a giant gap between the guitar and the hats and cymbals. The cymbals... that's probably where you're hearing what you don't like. There's something so off there I can't put my finger on it.
It's like some giant portion of them was eq'd away and they sound like aluminum.

Seriously, though, I'm sure people can help more if you post a higher quality mp3. Sounds pretty good so far, though.

Post

just some quick comments:

cymbals too loud
bass too loud
kick drum too soft
snare maybe a bit too soft

lates

t-willy

Post

First off all i want to thank you for your replays.

Now at 320 ... http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/track127.mp3

I want some guitar sound with a great bass feeling (like korn sound. munky from korn shape their guitar sound on a boss EQ pedal to achive that power low end sound).

but i think i cannot find how to do it on the EQ.... my guitar becames to muddy!!!! and i have exactly the same guitar... IBanez K7.

Guitar comes from Guitar rig2 with a powerfull punch but dont have that low-end sound.....and i am not an expert on mixing either....

Guitar rig 2 is not a problem because i am getting the same problem with the real Mesa boogie triple rectifier.....

My big problem is the EQ on the guitar tracks..... I dont know how to get a decent low end sound with hi's..

Any advices?
Sorry my bad bad english
REgards


Monitors: M1 Active MkII
Hearphones: Sennheiser - HD650
Soundcard: M-audio FireWire 1814
Drums: Fxpansion BFD
Guitar Rig 2 with my own presents....
Washburn MG-200 and Ibanez K7
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post

Hey, man, DLing now.
I've read about their bass-production technique (which is very specialized and complex) and I'll be back in a bit after a couple more listens.

Post

Brohymn wrote:First off all i want to thank you for your replays.
No prob. I'm glad I happen to have investigated their characteristic sound.
Brohymn wrote: Now at 320 ... http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/track127.mp3

I want some guitar sound with a great bass feeling (like korn sound. munky from korn shape their guitar sound on a boss EQ pedal to achive that power low end sound).
That's a lot better sounding. Jeez, it's hardly the same hehe.
OK the bass is still a trillion times too loud. Try some Dominion VST on there, use the "mono beat machine" preset on there which increases the attack and, obviously makes it mono, giving the guitar more room to spread its wings.
Especially with nu-metal, mixing/production is terrifyingly complex and you have to use your ears, not your gear (and trust me, we all forget this much too often). The "listening into the mix" ear takes years of training so don't feel bad.
Brohymn wrote: but i think i cannot find how to do it on the EQ.... my guitar becames to muddy!!!! and i have exactly the same guitar... IBanez K7.
You have the same guitar, but probably not the same preamp, mics, studio to record in, genius producer, etc. This shit is hard as hell to make sound good but in the digital age we have a better shot at it.

Severe eq-ing will f**k up any mix. Use it in moderation. If you have to eq the shit out of anything, anything at all, it will no longer sound real. Those cymbals, for instance.
Brohymn wrote: Guitar comes from Guitar rig2 with a powerfull punch but dont have that low-end sound.....and i am not an expert on mixing either....

Guitar rig 2 is not a problem because i am getting the same problem with the real Mesa boogie triple rectifier.....

My big problem is the EQ on the guitar tracks..... I dont know how to get a decent low end sound with hi's..
My suggestion for a quick fix: turn off ALL the eq on the guitar. Then take 2 versions of the guitar, pan one left, one right, delay one track by about 5 ms or so (jusdt scoot it over in your DAW a couple ticks) and eq the 2 guitars differently. It'll probably give you a good starting point for further mix-tweaking. A tiny bit of verb and stereo-widening on the drums would help them settle in the mix, too.

More snare for sure, like t-willy says. Try a compressor with saturation on the drums and get rid of all the eq on the cymbals, too, and post it again. Well, obviously you don't have to, but that's my 2 cents.

Anyone else have any suggestions?

Post

By the way, in the long-assed interview I read with the producer for one of Korn's recent albums they hired a classical orchestra producer and he used 6 (!) mics on the kick drum alone. So don't feel bad, and don't worry about your English - I'm guessing you didn't grow up in England but your post is very clear.

Post

WOW.... thanks for your replay.

I am using this signal chain on the guitars

GAC-1---> GR2---> GAC-1---> GEQ-7---> Waves S1 Stereo Imager.

GAC-1 - http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/gac-1.php
GEQ-7 - http://www.kjaerhusaudio.com/geq-7.php
Waves S1 - http://www.waves.com/content.asp?id=159
GR2 - Guitar rig 2

I've just remove all the eqs like you said. Here is the no mixed version.....the "original"...record

http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/original.mp3

Guitars dont have low-end punchy sound, drums are quite off the mixing...

I have all the hjaerhus plugins and waves.

I hv only 21yrs so i dont have yrs of experience... but i spend to much time on studios, since my father is a professional classical guitarist. I now see...homestudio nu-metal producing is quite hard....

Im from Portugal :D
Regards

PS could you give me the url for that interview? i would like to read it :)
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post

runagate wrote:OK the bass is still a trillion times too loud.

Severe eq-ing will f**k up any mix. Use it in moderation. If you have to eq the shit out of anything, anything at all, it will no longer sound real. Those cymbals, for instance.

My suggestion for a quick fix: turn off ALL the eq on the guitar. Then take 2 versions of the guitar, pan one left, one right, delay one track by about 5 ms or so (jusdt scoot it over in your DAW a couple ticks) and eq the 2 guitars differently. It'll probably give you a good starting point for further mix-tweaking. A tiny bit of verb and stereo-widening on the drums would help them settle in the mix, too.

More snare for sure, like t-willy says. Try a compressor with saturation on the drums and get rid of all the eq on the cymbals, too, and post it again. Well, obviously you don't have to, but that's my 2 cents.

Anyone else have any suggestions?
I agree completely runagate.

Brohymn, I know that Korn pans their guitars hard left and hard right on their past albums. it was usually head on the left and munky on the right i believe. i read an interview with them in Guitar Magazine - i'm not sure if it's online, but I'll check.

the bass guitar sound is very loud in your mix still as runagate said. if you want to get the sound fieldy does on bass guitar, then a good starting point is to EQ like this: the treble up all the way, bass about half way or more, and mid all the way down.

lates

t-willy

Post

t-willy - yes it was usually head on the left and munky on the right. I have listen to that million times :D

Here is "a simple :-o :-o " live rig diagram
Image

munky said:

"I also love the [GE-7] EQ pedal, because I can shape a really cool lo-fi sound out of it without having to switch anything on the amp, which I was doing before my guitar tech Jim O'Tell came in and suggested I do it with the pedal, which is cool, because I can cut the level, add a lot of mids, and take out the highs to get a really cool lo-fi sound."

Thanks for your bass suggestion, i will try that for sure.

My problem is getting a correct EQ for guitar tracks.... i always get the treble to down, bass to strong, and mid half-down...

Sorry my english
Regards
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post

OK, it's good to hear that mix and I think I have a better idea of what would help. Lemme just put my media player on repeat here for a few minutes...

Holy crap the guitar sounds better already. t-willy is exactly right about the bass sound. There's NO mids in Korn's bass. The kick drum sounds pretty good but I'm surprised the snare and the hi-hat don't sound better... it's not like it's anything you did to them, they just sound a little off.

Before I say more, listen to what I did to it (granted, it's an mp3 and done to the track as a whole instead of to the individual tracks re-mixed) and see if this is closer to what you'd like to hear. I just put it on this link on the first post cuz that's where I store music. You'll see your song there, I re-mastered it:

http://the-auditorium.net/viewtopic.php?p=30617#30617

And let me know when you grabbed the mp3 cuz it's your song and I don't want to leave it hanging there, I just don't know where else to upload it.

Is that more like how you want it to sound?

Post

yes. sounds lot better.... and its just like you said "it's an mp3 and done to the track as a whole instead of to the individual tracks re-mixed"

You use Normalize, eqs and compressors right?

I will change the snare and the hi-hat too..i dont like their tone... maybe 6.5 x 14 Snare Drum with sound focus rings.. :D and some compressor...

Any thing that can improve my sound...just tell me :) i will apreciate so much...

No problem with the mp3 hosting.... :)


Regards
Last edited by Brohymn on Thu Jul 20, 2006 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post

Well, part of the problem is that without sitting there next to you it's hard to convey what to do in text on a message board, but I think that changing the snare (it's ok, and kind of Korn-ish, but it doesn't set in the mix well) and I'd say even moreso ound the hi-hat which sounds like aluminum to me. The guitar? f**k, I don't even know. The guitarist I play with uses a 4-channel 1963 Marshal that is the hammer of God so I don't have any experience with solid-state guitar mixing. I do know that what you did with your mix reminds me of exactly what I used to do before I read way, way too much about how to mix and compress and eq things which is to say your ideas are sound but that every situation is different and you really must close your eyes and listen. That being said, people here have so, so much experience using compressors and VST tools in general every day that we oftentimes just "use the force" and slap the right mastering tools onto our mixes without thinking that much. I myself am not analytical when mixing which I'm no pro at but me and t-willy seem to be the only ones giving you the time of day because you make nu-metal ;) Which, by the way, after listening to it 90 times now still sounds like you're doing a good job.

Don't try to rush the process. Consider this an opportunity to learn. The compressors you are using are very very good tools (Kjaerhus, right) but unfortunately not the ones I'm familiar with. I'd guess that they're not created with the extreme sounds you use in mind and I'm thinking that something much more extreme would help your sound.

What I did to your mp3 was use Dominion transient compression to bring out the attack of the bass, drums and guitar (no choice of using it on all of em - they're all in the mix ;)) I widened the stereo field, tossed a tiny touch of tube-emulating excitation on there, compressed the bass and sub-bass seperately then did multiband limiting on the whole mix with very different attack, release and ratio settings on the sub-bass, bass, mids and highs. I don't use the traditional attack and release times, either... On bass I will use an attack anywhere from 5 ms to 15 ms and a release of 35 ms to maybe 75. And bass is obviously your main concern. If it's possible you might want to experiment with side-chaining the bass spectrum compression of the kick drum, bass and guitar.

But I'll still be around and hopefully we can work on this and get it to sound like you want.

Post

holy hell runagate! you made that tune sound 1000 times better. very impressive considering you only had the entire mix in mp3 form. I think if Brohymn goes back and mixes and re-tracks as per your recommendations, things will sound even better. we'll wait and see....good luck Brohymn 8)

lates

t-willy

Post

Thanks. really sound better. IMHO i think i can solver drums and bass problem...easylly but:

Here comes the main problem....
I have just right now do a relly fast recording some riff (korn - hypocrites).

http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/guitar.mp3

You will ear 3 versions...

1º - Guitar through GR2 only
2º - Guitar through GR2 + GAC-1
3º - Guitar through GR2 + GAC-1 + GEQ-7 (i am usually recording with this setting, provides a boom guitar sound... and i think the problem is here.... to guitar track with this settings + bass sound..... muddy.......bahh...)

If you guys can help me increaing the guitar sound to a more korn sound i will aprecciate :)



ps: Bass can be something like this ? no compressor.. or plugins... just the bass sound
http://brohymn.com.sapo.pt/bass.mp3
__________________________

http://www.guitarampmodeling.com

Post Reply

Return to “Music Cafe”