January contest: Extra discussion

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Discussion about monthly music contests.
:?
I've held back my comments, up till now, as being a 'newcomer' to KVR, but I have been a member now since March 2005, when I posted for help on building a new system for hobby recording and was overwhelmed at the instant advice which was available here. I also have contributed to the monthly contests since last September. Thus I feel 'not new' anymore!
I've just taken up a page at Kara-Moon so intend to post a 'potted history' of my musical influences and attributes, so won't bore folks here about me. If you need to know my heritage, take a look up there in a couple of weeks. All will (may) be revealed!.
:lol:
Anyway, being a relative learner to this computer world of music and being in the 'poor league' financially, and also as a dial-upper, I wish to state my case for KEEPING the monthly contest to 2 minutes.
Apart from the fact that, for us poor souls, a two minute song takes 10-12 minutes to up/download, I find that the strict timescale gives a real focus to the composition. It hones the song into an instantly identifiable piece of work, much in the way that so many of the classic pop songs of the sixties came about. When I was a lad ALL songs were 2 minutes (3 at the most).
I have also found the multicultural aspect of KVR to be a huge bonus, where musical influences are shared across the world. In the few months that I have partaken of these contests I have been fascinated by the differing world styles of music being mingled together. I would hate to see a tightening of rules that could possibly jeopardise this confluence.
When looking over the 'top tens' for the past few months it is obviously the wish of the voters to have keepers on their hard-drives of memorable, snapshot, recognisable tunes/songs. I feel that this would be lost by extending the time limit.
On the other hand, there is no reason at all why a contributor should not post his contest (2 min) entry and link from that to an 'extended version' in the main Music Café. Granted there are no prizes to be won over there, but ….we aren't all looking for prizes….are we?
Personally, all I'm looking for is constructive criticism……….and you lot are prize-winners at that!!!! I've learned more in the past few months than in the last 40 years!
:wink:
Cheers.

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Off,

You're absoloutely correct about the cultural aspect of the contest. Well said!

I'm also very glad to see that as a dial-upper, you've had the perseverence to hang in there!

Just for the record though, I see no need to make any major changes with respect to the contest. Sure, there may be some things some people dont like, and some little quirks that annoy others, but it has been workin now for what....5 years now. And to me, the music is always top notch. Dont fix it if it's not broke!

So rest asure, our little corner of the internet will remain intact.



Scoops
Bunch O Stuff

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offthewall wrote:...Anyway, being a relative learner to this computer world of music and being in the 'poor league' financially, and also as a dial-upper, I wish to state my case for KEEPING the monthly contest to 2 minutes...
For all the altruistic and other wonderful reasons you cite, I choose not to be so selfish as to restrict others to a two-minute limit.

As it stands, I cannot enter this month and maybe even next because of our current state of the internet here -- all my uploads and downloads end up corrupted, and I have 1 Megabit ADSL.

So, sorry -- but I think the 'bandwidth argument' is lame and selfish.

It's not too hard to imagine all the wonderful music that's getting chopped out of, as you say, "memorable, snapshot, recognisable tunes/songs." -- music that I would LOVE to hear.

There are certain genres, like glitch and soundscape and jazz that many times cannot be properly fulfilled within two minutes. This is not a 60's music contest and this is not the 60's -- it shouldn't be restricted to 2-minute jingles, ditties and interludes simply because you or I personally don't have the bandwidth. :shrug:
On the other hand, there is no reason at all why a contributor should not post his contest (2 min) entry and link from that to an 'extended version' in the main Music Café.
There are plenty of reasons why this doesn't work and won't happen and these reasons have been posted many times. Who's going to go to the effort to compose and perform a two minute song and then extend it into a longer version? It's been tried before. For most composers, a two minute song is a two minute song, and to extend it would be sacrilege, needless to say awkward.

BTW, can you name more than five songs from, say, 1965 that are clocked in at two minutes or under? ;)

IMHO -- just as you :tu:

Cheers

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Hi offthewall,

I'm glad to see you at kara-moon and I'm looking forward to that homepage :)
Now about the contest... as you noticed there are a couple of HOT subject that come back on a regular base, like the length of a song, the voting rules,...
And sometimes I participate in those discussions, mostly with no success...
The kvr contest somehow has become an institution which will be hard to change, Scoops just said it very well :
Just for the record though, I see no need to make any major changes with respect to the contest. Sure, there may be some things some people dont like, and some little quirks that annoy others, but it has been workin now for what....5 years now. And to me, the music is always top notch. Dont fix it if it's not broke!
I don't agree with this, if everybody tought like this, we would still live in caves and heat with open fire (and not have Internet... :) ).
But I consider the contest just as something with the same rules as the music industry. It is not the artist that makes the rules, the artist has to respect the rules.

Isn't that the same in the real music industry ? You can be a very innovative musician, but if the public doesn't buy your music, you'll starve to death.
Now compare that contest to the music bussiness and look at the winners of the last months, if you do a litle study, you'll pretty fast know what you have to do to make more POPULAR CONTEST MUSIC. You'll see that it is very often that the same TYPE of music ends in that TOP 10.
Since it is a contest, you have 2 choices; keep on posting your song (like you like them) just for the fun of it, or adapt to the voters and try to make a POPULAR song.
And that's what ANY contest is all about, the jury decides...
There are certain genres, like glitch and soundscape and jazz that many times cannot be properly fulfilled within two minutes
I don't agree, I'm a professional jazz player and it is quit easy to make a 2 min. jazz song.
And beside the fact that you have to squeez it in 2 min, you have to make it sound more or less POPULAR, because PURE jazz doesn't have a change in the contest. But it is possible. (a litle example : Far from the beach )
There are plenty of reasons why this doesn't work and won't happen and these reasons have been posted many times. Who's going to go to the effort to compose and perform a two minute song and then extend it into a longer version? It's been tried before. For most composers, a two minute song is a two minute song, and to extend it would be sacrilege, needless to say awkward.
Hmm, yes and no...
I did use the kvr contest to create a 2 min SKETCH of a song idea I had, and worked it out to a complete song later.
With some songs that works, with other it won't because they have been written with that 2 min. limit in mind.

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kara wrote: The kvr contest somehow has become an institution which will be hard to change, Scoops just said it very well :
Scoops wrote: Just for the record though, I see no need to make any major changes with respect to the contest. Sure, there may be some things some people dont like, and some little quirks that annoy others, but it has been workin now for what....5 years now. And to me, the music is always top notch. Dont fix it if it's not broke!
I don't agree with this, if everybody tought like this, we would still live in caves and heat with open fire (and not have Internet... :) ).
But I consider the contest just as something with the same rules as the music industry. It is not the artist that makes the rules, the artist has to respect the rules.
Kara,

I laughed real hard when I read your "I dont agree" statement. I've used that so many times, it's not funny. But I do appreciate your comments

Here's what I consider to be the crux of the matter.
Everybody has a different take on what this contest is. Some people take it very seriously. Some use it as a learning expeirence. Some people just like hanging out here. Some use it as a sounding board for the stuff they are workin on. Some people think this should be the same rules as the music industry. Some people play to win, some don't, and on and on. For every individual, there will probably be a differnt definition of what this contest is. And there's the problem. To get everybody from around the world to agree on what this contest is will be near impossible. So if changes were to be made, there's always someone thats gonna say..."That Sucks"!

So, rather than taking on the task of changing the contest, I'll keep it as is. That way people can continue to use it however they please.

I have other thoughts on this matter, but I need to get off to work.

Stay tuned
Bunch O Stuff

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Hi Scoops,

I'm a bit suprised about your reaction, perhaps I wasn't clear (as you know english isn't my native language) but I actualy was trying to defend the contest as it is....
It is not the artist that makes the rules, the artist has to respect the rules.
And that's what ANY contest is all about, the jury decides...
Where did i go wrong ?
Which doesn't mean that I agree with everything :)

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kara wrote:Hi Scoops,

I'm a bit suprised about your reaction, perhaps I wasn't clear (as you know english isn't my native language) but I actualy was trying to defend the contest as it is....
It is not the artist that makes the rules, the artist has to respect the rules.
And that's what ANY contest is all about, the jury decides...
Where did i go wrong ?
Which doesn't mean that I agree with everything :)
Oh...excuse me

I thought when you stated that "I disagree..." you were indicating that you didnt agree with the statement I made above. Now I see that that was a new train of thought on your be-half.

Scoops
Bunch O Stuff

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This is why I started a new thread, rather than hi-jacking the contest discussion.
Thanks for the comments.
:wink:
To adj,
you are as right as I am! We have differing standards but both appreciate the musical talents on offer here.
What I am saying, in defence of the 'band-width argument', is that as the monthly contest upholds the two-minute rule it is openly available to anyone, no matter what their connection speed.
For those who have a high-speed connection....there is the REST OF the music cafe!
Us dial-uppers just happen to miss out on being able to hear MOST of the (probably) wonderful stuff which is available out there.
Please don't deny us the one section which is accessible to all.
:D

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I don't have time to say much here now, but for me this contest and the many wonderful entries every month are one of the greatest experiences i've made during the last months.

It rocks!

mello
"It dreamed itself along"

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