3am - Tooth (now with sparkling clean mix!)

[justin3am]

I don't think I'm totally satisfied with how this came out. The melody is too normal. I really like the sounds though, and the mix is pretty good if I do say so myself.

Tooth

I am trying to use less EQ and I'm using compression as an effect rather than as a means to fix the mix.

On the other hand this is what it sounds like through Pro Tools with tons of processing on each individual sound. It has more sparkle and the mix clings together a little better.

Tooth (better mix)

This mix is courtesy of the Smack! compressor, AirEQ and TL Space reverb Perhaps I over did it on the bass?

Let me know what you think!

Thanks,
3am

[johnny2johnny]

ok, I dont know my software but I do know my mixing a little....

oh well. anyways I like the track a lot, so I am listening to it twice... The melody is really cool... its sweet...


and the sounds are awesome....


I wouuld have compressed the bass at about 4-1 and then eq'd it very hard at about 530 on this track...


Then for the things that go pop, pop, pop....


I would have compressed them at about 5 - 1

I would have used an attack of about 12 mili, and a realese of about 33


this should give a sorta pumping compression, then I would have taken the threshhold down.... and set them lower in the mix....



actually you are getting three listens of this track from me....

truth is I dont think you over eq'd at all. to my ears it all sounds clear and full..

maybe I would have panned things a little more left and right... but they do sound like they are moving from speaker to speaker a little... did you automate the panning?


The pads, you cut have cut a little off the bottom end with eq, keep off the bass...

and compressed them at about 2- 1 with a quick attack and quick realess...


the leads could have been compressed at 2 - 1 or less.. just to get them to sit...


compression is funny, I use tons of it.... I love compression. you can get so many wierd textures with it, it locks everything down... so it almost vibrates against itself....

you wouldnt have to use as much as I say......


The only thing here that probably NEEDS compression is that popping stuff...


and at the very end, the rising pad that gets louder and louder.... just so it doesnt jump out.....




Plz remember everything I say could be very very very wrong, and it seemed like you wanted input... its a kick ass track, your music is really original. and I know very little about all this stuff at the end of the day....


but hey, that be my thoughts

[justin3am]

Thanks for the input, you basically described my approach to mixing with the exception of this track.

There is definitely a problem with the bass in the low-mids that isn't as apparent in the .wav as it is in the .mp3. Rather than EQing the bass itself I've gotten the desired result by rolling off the low end on the reverb. Other than that I'm proud to say I didn't use any EQ on this track. The clicks and pops are already heavily compressed (-30 dB at 10:1) but I used a 20ms attack and 300ms release. I did this to avoid pumping and to get that really dense snap. The exception is the heavily pumped hi-hats.

I was going for a really open sound on this track which requires much less compression and much more thoughtful volume balancing. The only problem I'm finding is that this makes the sound vary drastically from one sound system to another. I guess this means back to the drawing board.

There is a lot of panning automation as well as use of phasing to create psyco-acoustic effects, (like the parts where the evolving pad moves closer and futher apart in the stereo field) but I think that may be more evident in headphones.

I really appreciate your feedback becuase it reinforces the idea that I could stick to my tried and true mixing style if I wanted to because that sounds good too. For this I wanted to try something new, based on treating synthetic sounds as acoustic sound sources and using their relationship to each other as my mixing reference. I guess it goes back to my days as an engineer, my boss considered "fixing it in the mix" a sin.

I may try a different mix with my typical approach but some of these sounds (namely the clicks that are comprised of a sudden DC offset) do not respond well to EQ or compression or even reverb for that matter. I let my ears rest and then go about a second mix tomorrow.

Thanks for listening!

[polyslax]

That's crazy good! Love the naive melody over the tasty busy beats - awesome!

[corman rapeblio]

Wow.. you guys sure know a lot more about production than I do.. I just kind of guess with compression. But who really cares when the track is this charming.. I really love the breakdown about a 3rd of the way in.. the melody sounds best when you roll off the top more,and then bring it back like you do near the end, but it's essence is great, I'm just taking about sound (and I'm sure we're all aware how subjective that is)... tempo change near outro works nice... cool work.

[justin3am]

Wow.. you guys sure know a lot more about production than I do..

Don't be fooled, I know terminology and theory pretty well but practical use is another story. I've gotten lucky enough to find compressors and gates that work the way I think they should. There are some that seem like they should have a killer sound but I just can't get them to work their magic on my material.

Poly, thanks for the kind words, I just keep wanting the melody to be something more. It has demented moments but I was going for something darker, I think the slower parts are closer to what I wanted over all but those parts didn't work well with the spastic beats.

[Jazzyspoon]

Wicked tweaker!
You will continue to impress me with your programming skillz forever, won't you? I am the opposite, I know only a fractional amount of terminology or theory. But my ear occasionally gets me by.
I'll be excited to hear this when it's finished bathing in the mixdown and PT, as i don't yet hear that "3AM finish"(tm) on this yet.
Great 'chippy' work! ....as always, my friend.

[justin3am]

Thanks dude! Some of the sounds are resisting the "3am finish" but that is what I get for mixing by numbers. I have started over again from -(infinity) dB and will see what I can do. Thanks fo listening.

[justin3am]

I have posted a new mix of this track. I thinks it sounds a lot better than the first one. Unfortunately the mp3 still f**ks up the snappyness of the really hard transients. What are you gonna do? Enjoy!

Tooth (better mix)

Thanks guys.

[frequency_algorithm]

sounds like venetian snares barfed and this came out. I thought you like EL-p?

[frequency_algorithm]

You disappoint me, justin3am, i thought your electronic/hiphop style could hit this level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkcbtLPTO0

[Jazzyspoon]

fu@#ing nice. Dude, this kicks ass. Love how much more involved the rhythmic elements are in creating the groove. The erratic tempo change work seems so "in place" towards the end of the track.

...and into the 3 am folder it goes.....for keepers.
peace
jazzy

[justin3am]

I also like Puccini, Sun Ra, Meshuggah and Madonna. They have all influenced me in some way, I guess some influences are more apparent than others. Thanks though, I don't even consider myself to be good enough to be Aaron's vomit. Perhaps the dingle-berries around his asshole

Peace

3am

[justin3am]

You disappoint me, justin3am, i thought your electronic/hiphop style could hit this level:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPkcbtLPTO0

Dude, that's some pretty cool shit. I've done some Hip-Hop stuff along the lines of Boom Bip and DoseOne but it's nothing I'm very proud of. This spastic beat oriented stuff comes more naturally.

@Jazzy: I figured that this mix would draw more attention to the groove rather than specific elements. Thanks for the affirmation!

Thanks again!

[justin3am]

The erratic tempo change work seems so "in place" towards the end of the track.

This is a poly rhythm trick, not a tempo change. 3/4 the original tempo = 72BPM, can be expressed by turning a four beat pattern into a six beat pattern, 2/3 the original tempo = 64BPM, can be expressed by turning a four beat pattern into an eight beat pattern in triplets, and the final change is an eight beat pattern stretched over sixteen beats. The tricky part is getting this to fit in the space of eight bars! This way you don't have to mess with tempo automation and it doesn't seem to jump to an unrelated rhythm.

But don't tell anybody! That's a trade secret!