Beats

[phibeck]

Hi y'all!

I have been making beats with different "flavours" - sure would like some feedback:

Persian HipHop: http://www.box.net/shared/ohoh04ryzi

Japanese HipHop: http://www.box.net/shared/oyuyyy372b

Normal HipHop: http://www.box.net/shared/ouxvar6x8b

Jazzy HipHop: http://www.box.net/shared/kyist76in1

Pure Jazz HipHop: http://www.box.net/shared/2c9fri5ufh


I would also like to collaberate with a vocalist/rapper artist?

Hope you enjoy them!

Philip.

[jancivil]

Hey

I listened to the persian one, cause I like that part of the world musically, with a LOATHING of hip hop as a caveat.

FORTUNATELY this isn't hip hop. not that I care a whit about what genre.

good tune, good drums, it rocks. I think it's a shame, the synth production.
with real-sounding strings and a band etc, this could really take off.

it sounds, as an object, completely like plastic, it's obviously faked. In other words, there is music like this available that someone took the time to produce for real. if that's your goal this is a great start.

as it is, it's a demo of a potentially great tune, isn't it.
It's too good to pollute with some rapping, is my other take on this.

elsewhere, quickly, the word 'jazz' has definite connotations of something musicians did as an ensemble in a room, listening to each other. Doing this as if 'for flavor' will be seen as disrespectful.

good luck in any case

[phibeck]

Hey

I listened to the persian one, cause I like that part of the world musically, with a LOATHING of hip hop as a caveat.

FORTUNATELY this isn't hip hop. not that I care a whit about what genre.

good tune, good drums, it rocks. I think it's a shame, the synth production.
with real-sounding strings and a band etc, this could really take off.

it sounds, as an object, completely like plastic, it's obviously faked. In other words, there is music like this available that someone took the time to produce for real. if that's your goal this is a great start.

as it is, it's a demo of a potentially great tune, isn't it.
It's too good to pollute with some rapping, is my other take on this.

elsewhere, quickly, the word 'jazz' has definite connotations of something musicians did as an ensemble in a room, listening to each other. Doing this as if 'for flavor' will be seen as disrespectful.

good luck in any case

Thanks very much for your comments. I very much appreciate you using your time to help. Just to be precise, this wasn't sampled from anything else, I wrote it from scratch, with the express idea of combining old and new instruments. It was never meant to be authentic Persian, just as it isn't authentic HipHop - but it has a place somewhere in between. Your points are very valid, and I will most certaintly think more deeply about what you've written. - but I can't help loving synths .

As for the jazz - I have played jazz guitar actively for a long time - and modern jazz musicians are very experimental - and forgiving!

Have a great day! Philip.

[jancivil]

Well, my point was that the orchestration in the first one doesn't do justice to the idea (because we have heard this sound, in general, before, and we expect a certain sound). And you will find more appreciation if you go whole-hog with it, accordingly. I meant that as a physical object, it's plastic, it's not something to get next to. Persian musicians will do something at least as 'inauthentic' to be commercial, which this endeavors to be (otherwise WHY 'hip hop'?), and that isn't my judgement to make.

The latter thing isn't experimental, it's quantized. It's a fine swing quantization, and you seem to understand the conventions well enough, but, that track is utterly alienating to me, and my thought is, that's not just me.

You're a good writer and arranger, Phil, I just don't think the clothes fit the beast, not at all.

[phibeck]

Well, my point was that the orchestration in the first one doesn't do justice to the idea (because we have heard this sound, in general, before, and we expect a certain sound). And you will find more appreciation if you go whole-hog with it, accordingly. I meant that as a physical object, it's plastic, it's not something to get next to. Persian musicians will do something at least as 'inauthentic' to be commercial, which this endeavors to be (otherwise WHY 'hip hop'?), and that isn't my judgement to make.

The latter thing isn't experimental, it's quantized. It's a fine swing quantization, and you seem to understand the conventions well enough, but, that track is utterly alienating to me, and my thought is, that's not just me.

You're a good writer and arranger, Phil, I just don't think the clothes fit the beast, not at all.

These were very astute comments, and I take them on board.

The reason for writing "HipHop" beats at the moment is because I have been asked to by a DJ I know. (He plays them at his club, they get no more exposure than that - I have also produced some "house" things for him). However, I am aware that it isn't really HipHop - though after many years of playing live as a musician, I really am enjoying composing/producing, and being "allowed" to use synths.

I think your comment which really hits home is "Clothes and beasts" - I don't know if you have listened to all the links, but in your opinion then, in light of what you have heard - what beast should I choose, and what clothes should it wear?

Philip.

[Jazzyspoon]

Hi Phibeck,
There's some cool beats here. The overall recordings aren't very sharp or original sounding, but they are mostly clean and programmed well.. Roaming through them now. I dabble in the same hybrid arts you have posted here and I must say that the writing/editing is good, the recording/production are a little less exciting.

I found the Pure jazz one the most interesting and tasteful.
Thanks for sharing,
Jazzy

p.s. in the future, when posting hip hop without a vocalist, you'll get a little less hostility here in KVR if you call it Trip Hop until you have a vocalist. Most people on here don't like hip hop much, at least not in it purest forms.

[polyslax]

p.s. in the future, when posting hip hop without a vocalist, you'll get a little less hostility here in KVR if you call it Trip Hop until you have a vocalist. Most people on here don't like hip hop much, at least not in it purest forms.

[jancivil]

the opening of the persian thing CAN be done with like a french oboe or cor anglais over a bassoon or bass clarinet, but will sound substantially better with the real deal, the instrument is called a shenai, or a duduk, should work.

when that fat thing sustaining down low enters, you mebbe oughtta keep that, it has a lot of impact, i hear a big tuba doubling it, it'd be massive.

you appear to know that the strings at first are cellos, as they are more or less placed where cellos are on a soundstage, then violas.
there are percussive articulations of the theme that call for orchestra snare. It's hard to parse out some of it and will take some time; obviously there are places - that one where the thing pans later on, that are synths; some of it is going to be woodwinds, regular western ones, reinforced by electric guitar, a warm one, not too overdriven.

as a whole, against this synth orchestration the drums sit well enough, but will want to be real drums in the context of what I scribbled above. one word: BFD.

I like this track well enough to help you with it; at least I can help with the drums, I mean I'm pretty busy.

but, you'll want to get the sounds together first, drums have to sit well in the tracks; if drums were the primary thrust, or if one has the experience to imagine what one wants physically from the whole sound, from the start, one can start with a particular drum sound

what is your setup, what is available to you? (BTW kontakt 3 has the persian woodwinds in its library)

Is there a budget for this?

I think the way to go with the japanese one is to start with what you got, add some virtually real KOTO and a couple of things and see what still wants to stay, that one is a electronic sort of idea

I like the triplet eighths, that's what I'd do too there, the little switchup is good dance sense.

[phibeck]

It hadn't occured to me to do it with "real" (well sampled) instruments. It was meant as a "dance" thing, and might be too simple to do a whole production on? I don't (at the moment anyway) have too much in the way of gear. A new PC arrives tomorrow, so that I can upgrade to Sonar 6, from sonar 2.2 that I've been using on my old clapped out PC: Other than that, I have a newly bought Motif Rack ES, and an old Roland JV1010. And thats it! (The strings that you don't like were called "Rap Strings" in the Motif).

You've given me a lot of food for thought - and your kind offer to help is generous indeed. Whilst accepting that with the improvements you suggest it could be much bettter - I really, really like synths, and having to give them up would be like quitting Cola or something. It would be a great challenge to do the whole thing with "real" instruments (samples). Sonar 6 includes a sample-player - so I would certaintly need to get some experience with that first.

What kind of music lies closer to your heart? Do you like anything that includes synth-sounds? I can write just about anything really, but some things are more fun than others. Perhaps I could write something you like better?

[jancivil]

It hadn't occured to me to do it with "real" (well sampled) instruments. It was meant as a "dance" thing, and might be too simple to do a whole production on?

(The strings that you don't like were called "Rap Strings" in the Motif).

even for dance, fatter is better. I just hear the persian one, which is what interests me here, as very grand, and who knows; it could take off in clubs. It calls for the big production, the others, not so much.

the strings were decent enough for fake strings, it's just I like this indo-persian rock sound, and happen to know fairly particularly what it's supposed to physically sound like.

You've given me a lot of food for thought - and your kind offer to help is generous indeed. Whilst accepting that with the improvements you suggest it could be much bettter - I really, really like synths, and having to give them up would be like quitting Cola or something. It would be a great challenge to do the whole thing with "real" instruments (samples).

One word of caution: in a production, it can be FATAL to get attached to a sound, even if it's a sound that was your impetus. as I said in my appended reply above, the 'japanese' one is electronica or whatever, and those clothes fit, they just call for some real nipponica (if only as a symbol, *Koto*), they'd be prettier.

you are a decent musician, and I understand that dance stuff might bring some income. (NB: I am NOT anti-dance, it's just that most shit don't move my butt at all). Synths, hey, I love 'em, I majored for a minute in electronic music composition, I just don't go for cheezy in anything. But, in this sort of generica exercise, it might be de rigeur, I don't know.

Me, I'm a rock musician with too much edumacashum.

[phibeck]

My Dj-partner has just told me that he has been in contact with a group in England - they want the persian one - but I have to make changes - and they are all the opposite of what you wanted! More up-tempo, more riffing, more drums, and simpler. Cut out the ethnic instrument. No accounting for taste. Anything for a buck.

I'm with you on the Rock stuff - caught Dream Theatre in Oslo a few weeks back. They delivered the goods!

[phibeck]

Jan - check your PM's

[jancivil]

My Dj-partner has just told me that he has been in contact with a group in England - they want the persian one - but I have to make changes - and they are all the opposite of what you wanted! More up-tempo, more riffing, more drums, and simpler. Cut out the ethnic instrument. No accounting for taste. Anything for a buck.

I'm with you on the Rock stuff - caught Dream Theatre in Oslo a few weeks back. They delivered the goods!

in other words, they def want something less musical, please! Gotta Love It. You can do that, probably quite easily, and see if it flies. Same Old Shit, dime a dozen, fizzle out real quick sort of operation. They are asking you to take out anything that sets it apart, because they have No Idea, they're chickenshit suits, tell me I'm wrong. Pretty hilarious, and to be expected I guess. I think underestimating people's innate musicality is idiotic. it's stupid to want the persian thing and then demand you take the persian color out of it; pump up the tempo, make it hyperactive, YEAH, THAT'S THE TICKET.

I forget though, y'alls all white folk up in there, gay honky crowd on poppers/faster is better.

WHAT DO I KNOW. LOL.

[corman rapeblio]

To me these are like the loud guy at the party who is kind of annoying AND funny.. But his role is valuable because he relieves the awkwardness.

Accomplished compositions. I just think you're SOUND lacks style. And I believe without style, Art ain't much. Personal thing.

[musikjock]

I needed to chime in here- I loved most of these beats. the quality is not the highest, but the programming shows a lot of integrity. the regular hip hop track brought me straight back to my days of working on n-track..which is a good thing. the songs are made with a hint of sarcasm that, to me, makes it all the while.