we create, therefore we am.

[polyslax]

Enjoyed the sounds and the flow vurt, thanks!

[vurt]

i meant diversity in tastes more than in the track.

but yes for me the idea is to communicate, to communicate how i see things, if people get it great if not, well does it matter?

disrespectful of string technique never,

first, I am approaching auditioning other music (yes, taste is unavoidable), as an object, first and foremost. And I was referring to diversity of tastes, and possibly an implication that mine is less than fully inclusive, because I was critical (read: uncomprehending).

no, no implication about any ones tastes being less than anything, just that tastes are different. blue and red are different neither one could ever be considered better?
again all i can say is i am aware my output isnt to everybodies taste, even within those that have similar tastes criticise me, is it not criticism that teaches us how to move on, to evolve? learning from our mistakes?

second, if you read my post, I said I did like the sort of in-between intonation the second time around, that on first audition, the context led me to think, he's having us on, or giving the finger. or, it's just humor. which, if more succinct, I'm with you.

its not really about whether people like it or not though, its about whether i feel im having fun during the process, if im pushing boundaries of my own, if im getting something out of it...
if people listen thats entirely up to them, if they wish to discuss it afterwards then great, but dont expect me to agree with every critique or comment any more than i expect anyone else to agree with me.

and this is probably my final effort here with you on the subject, beyond it I'm harping, head directly into the brick wall, sans any primrose path: 'if people get it... if not well does it matter?' seems to me to have assumed a stance, that equals: 'If I fail to communicate, the failure is not in myself'

i have assumed no stance that implies any superiority, my stance is more that once a piece like this is done, its done, its time to move on for me. i write more often than not in the moment, this will often lead to mistakes in the flow, mistakes even when im recording that make me whince, for me they make it all the more "momentary" as in if i stop the recording and repeat, i may not get those glitches, wrong sounds whatever, and then its not truley a moment in time, its perfection, i know there is no such thing as oerfection so why would i persist in such a folly that gets in the way of me enjoying what im doing?
please stop trying to paint me with some elitist brush, you really couldnt be further from the mark

where, on a level playing field, it tends to be more a fifty/fifty proposition.

and here i can only agree, but that doent mean everyone should just agree all the time. a discussion is far more interesting when people disagree on some points. im just not entirely sure what it has to do with anything here?

in sum, I'm pretty sure I got it, I just thought it possibly a hasty post unless you were looking for feedback. maybe it's like a club, and I don't know the style of etiquette.

again this idea of some sort of elite club of people sat looking down at others, the idea for the cafe is that people post their pieces others comment.
no special etiquette, other than respect, like things or dont like things, comment as you see fit but dont expect that your opinion is the only opinion. when it comes to art and music i think we both know there are far and wide elements of either, not all will catch on, not all will be accepted beyond the arists himself in some cases, that imo does not make one lesser or one better, just different

[vurt]

Enjoyed the sounds and the flow vurt, thanks!

thanks

[rachmiel]

you know what i'd love to see:

a dialogue between runagate and jancivil.

i have an image of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of words flowing all over each other and bumping heads like molecules in a hyperheated gas. the result would, i think, be like abstract poetry.

[justin3am]

you know what i'd love to see:

a dialogue between runagate and jancivil.

i have an image of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of words flowing all over each other and bumping heads like molecules in a hyperheated gas. the result would, i think, be like abstract poetry.

I know what you mean but I have such a terrible aversion to conflict at any level that I would be afraid to read a thread where those two were able to interact freely. I'm not saying that they are by nature contentious, (well maybe not Jancivil, because I don't know him that well, but Runny has openly claimed to indulge in controversial topics). I'm sure that truly enlightening discourse would ensue but at the same time I would be reading the thread while peaking through my fingers with my hand over my eyes. I'm just afraid of what might happen if they disagree about something.

No offense to anyone, you are all such well spoken gentlemen with the utmost respect for each others opinions but I just get so uncomfortable when discussions become heated.

Love and Peace,
3am

[rachmiel]

you know what i'd love to see:

a dialogue between runagate and jancivil.

i have an image of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of words flowing all over each other and bumping heads like molecules in a hyperheated gas. the result would, i think, be like abstract poetry.

I know what you mean but I have such a terrible aversion to conflict at any level that I would be afraid to read a thread where those two were able to interact freely. I'm not saying that they are by nature contentious, (well maybe not Jancivil, because I don't know him that well, but Runny has openly claimed to indulge in controversial topics). I'm sure that truly enlightening discourse would ensue but at the same time I would be reading the thread while peaking through my fingers with my hand over my eyes. I'm just afraid of what might happen if they disagree about something. :D

No offense to anyone, you are all such well spoken gentlemen with the utmost respect for each others opinions but I just get so uncomfortable when discussions become heated.

Love and Peace,
3am

don't fear good natured passion ... even if it gets hot! it can be like a crucible that produces, on occasion, (relative (because there is no absolute) TRUTH as a byproduct. ;-) meanness and arrogance and narrowmindedness (all of which exist on kvr, as they do everywhere else in the world) are a different story. and i don't think jancivil or runagate indulge much in these practices.

[justin3am]

I just remember having such a hard time sifting through the "Organisch" thread because I feel uncomfortable observing even a good natured argument. My wife however, she is a master debater (and a cunning linguist ), it drives her crazy that I will simply have a lack of opinion when it comes to controversial topics.

My muse is internal turmoil and conflict.

Interestingly enough, it's easier of me to witness a baseless, illogical, endlessly circular argument than to listen to two well read people discussing their differences of opinion amicably. Perhaps, I'm showing my hand too much (to use a psychological-poker metaphor). Anyways, I have so much respect for the opinions of those that have taken the time to inform themselves along the lines of their "beliefs" or their opinions, but I tend to be pretty sheepish along those lines.

I guess I would like to hear their opinions on the topic, (primarily because I'm embarrassed to talk about them without their involvement) but please guys be gentle... I'm fragile.


Oh shit, this is vurt's thread, sorry dude. No disrespect!

[vurt]

no apology necassary, carry on
to discuss, to feel, to not feel, its all relevant to why we come here no?

[runagate]

you know what i'd love to see:

a dialogue between runagate and jancivil.

i have an image of thousands (perhaps hundreds of thousands) of words flowing all over each other and bumping heads like molecules in a hyperheated gas. the result would, i think, be like abstract poetry.

Hmm I only just stumbled upon this page of comments now.
I'm not sure what led up to it, but I'll go back and see.

I try not to debate on KVR too much as my text doesn't come across much like my speech. I come across far more harsh here, which is odd as irl I am a freaking terrifyingly huge person in most people's eyes so I tend never to raise my voice and make you little people look all scared.

Except, or course, impassioned essay-length anti-trance rants. I figure so many people want to say what I say (judging from private comments) that I may as well take the heat for it since I genuinely couldn't care less.

Is this in the Music Cafe? What exactly is under discussion here; I gotta go backtrack. Good roint, rick, I've already had to force myself to limit the number of words in this post and this is what I've disgorged

[clueless]

i always assumed jancivil was a woman.

[clueless]

runny, cheer up.

[justin3am]

Geez, I'd be pretty embarassed if that were the case. If so accept my appology ahead of time.

[rachmiel]

1. the organisch thread DID become somewhat nasty ... jancivil and i got going on each other, but we eventually calmed down.

2. runagate, i hope you don't think i'm disparaging your writing? quite the contrary: i get a huge kick out of your elliptical way with words and ideas. for me, your language is just another aspect of your music, your self.

[runagate]

which are like being stuck in a laundromat with 6 video games, and the brown acid isn't going to wear off anytime real soon

I could go either way on that one. It sounds like it has possibilities.

i have on many occassions risen to the comments and retaliated with some sort of track wgich has all the markings of western musical composition ideas, structure, melody, rhythm, its not something that makes me happy and there are people who are better at that than me, so id rather listen to them

Lordy, if only more people were humble enough to leave well enough alone.
I, myself, strenuously try to never, ever make hip-hop despite having quite a few thousand ideas I'd like to try out.

As to the etiquette of the music cafe: I'm not even sure any more.

I used to try to at least listen to and give help to any new posters that link up their music here but I ran out of time, including to comment on the music of people whose music I'm an avowed fan of.

Part of why I stopped is the type of person who is attracted to the Cafe, oddly. Too many, "Not my cup of tea" comments from me. I simply have nothing much to say about acoutic guitar players with poor pitch and weak voices or anything nice to say about trance.

With vurt, he's about the least elitism, most easygoing guy around. S.hush, who is a total dick most of the time (I say that thinking ahead of time I'm sure he'd agree happily) certainly can't be accused of giving a dishonest opinion of his tastes and figures that vurt is probably used to him by now.

I, myself, am rarely moved by anything positive anyone has to say about anything I make and I make a point of admiting when such comments tickle my fancy. Really I'd like to engage in dialogue with people who are perplexed but intrigued by it, and see what's on their mind. Certainly that's my main reaction to almost everything shamann has ever made that I've heard. Perplexed but intruiged - I'm not sure if that's a polite comment in most people's minds (shamann knows that's my reaction to his various opuses already). I almo like creative insults, but rarely does anything I make even elicit that from strangers

I wonder where people pick up the idea that those who make music uncomfortably distant from traditional forms hate everything else? Certainly my tastes swing very much to the opposite extreme from "easy listening" inasmuch as I only like things that engage intense attention in me and I know full well that that is entirely the opposite of what the overwhelming majority of people want to hear.

I do wish I had a few more mute slots, though. I filled mine all up by 2006.

[runagate]

1. the organisch thread DID become somewhat nasty ... jancivil and i got going on each other, but we eventually calmed down.

2. runagate, i hope you don't think i'm disparaging your writing? quite the contrary: i get a huge kick out of your elliptical way with words and ideas. for me, your language is just another aspect of your music, your self.

1.) I'm not surprised. You two bicker in a too-civilized way for me to pick up on.

2.) Nope, not at all In essence I'm saying I hold back a lot more than I let on around here. IRL I literally will not lie to fellow bands/musicians about what I think about their music, so people have the sense not to ask if they don't want to know hehehehe. I'd like to think that I've prevented at least 2 or 3 emo bands from forming *crosses fingers*