[ runagate ] electro dance

[liqih]

the thread has gone far from this, but I would comment later on that...

now runagate you tried to make me blush, <grin>,
but of course I'm very glad you like the remix,

about understanding your music, for me what I played was implicit in your ordinated chaos, surely the hint of a cuban riff was there and guided my bassline,

to me (and this connects to the chris post) you plugins trips are really like good old free jazz, Art Ensemble Of Chicago playing FL Studio,
honestly I was never huge fan of free jazz but I liked it mixed with cool and blues, so when I hear one of your runagate track suddenly I feel the urge to mitigate the chaos and bring some friendly music in, but just what I hear that is already inside it, maybe something that you tried tio hide with effects or that you created by the effects interaction and it's not "well formed" yet, so what I add is my interpretation of the existing form

remember la Charanga Demolicious cj?

once more here with this
http://www.dashsignature.com/mp3/Jammin ... _Liqih.mp3

sorry for taking in on a more conventional jazzy way,

remixed with drums and played bass with it,

I like yours a lot better than mine to be honest. The real drums with the "soggy" drums sounds exactly right! Your bass is utterly perfect - it sounds so much like what I try to do with BooBass that I literally thought you'd somehow found some of my bass somewhere and re-used it in this track! I kept thinking, how'd he get that to sound so good?

The recursive little rhythmic tics you brought out make me happy, too.

The way you mixed it makes it seem even more like a space band playing in a celestial aviary gone awry. It's really weird how well you understand my musical intentions; I don't get it! I'm a sucker for snare drags, btw. I can hear how you sequence the edits, it's just great. The dover-spasms little repetetive part in the background about 3/4ths of the way through is particularly lovely. Hahaha, thanks for making me laugh in public, Mr. L.
That's badass, who else can make my songs sound like a party?

[jancivil]

I have no issue with how other people waste their time on a planet, it's takes all sorts to make a world, but I do have some real issues, philosophically, with some of what gets said, and I apparently care something about it. Or, I'm just that on-the-rag.

(2) - you're blatantly discounting not only an entire genre, but an entire class of genres. That's what pisses me off.

if it's all down to taste, and forgive me if I misconstrue you, I believe that was your whole point above, how is it that blatant disregard of anything is less valid than any other view? hence objectivity. Music can be considered as a spacial object in time, absolutely, if you don't have a skin in the game of expectation viz a viz a genre or a category, per se. (I do have expectations from connotations that certain sounds call up, which is a type of prejudice, and I won't call it something else. that said, I think it qualitatively different than what I see from people who worship this or that style to the exclusion of other stuff. there is room for argument here, and I will leave that much room; I shall, however, address it in another way at bottom.

(3) Please, don't put Trance, House, and real Techno into the "Techno" category. You wouldn't call Death Metal a form of Rock'n'Roll - they're both a form of Rock, maybe, but that's about as much as they're related. As a rule - if it's groovy and soulful, it's probably House. If it's uplifting and cheesy, it's probably Trance. If it's hard and machine-like, it's probably Techno. (that's a very, very general approximation though).
of genres.

it's all a lot of nothing anyway, so what can it mean? any categorization of it.

(5) Yes, I do think alot of KVRers are abstract music snobs. If you genuinely like it then that's cool (I get that impression from your post, although I did think otherwise at some point), but avant-garde just for the sake of being avant-garde is just silly, and it seems to me like ALOT of KVRers are.

I concur entirely, and don't mind saying so; a lot of this kind of 'art' behavior is just as lazy as anyone who does 'trance'

(6) I'm not "pro-trance". I'm not pro anything, except pro-good music. And if it happens to be a good Trance song, then I like it. I don't have prejudices.

bullshit, and bullshit. you've indicated prejudice with every assertion you've made thus far. ("Trance". Please. go do a search and look into some information about music in actual trance induction, hint: Morocco. Dumbek. Bongos, even.); your language is so corrupt (also see *ambient*, as an actual word), it's hilarious to me that you expect a person with any experience with it to take you seriously.

(7) Techno, Trance, House etc. are classified as dance music because they are danceable. They originated in Classic House which came (in part) from -- *gasp* Disco (I'm serious - listen to the drums on many old disco songs and you'll realize why), and Disco certainly is dance music as well.

it's 'danceable', why, and how? (now even I have some skin in this game. I am a dancer) because the beat is obvious enough for persons with no real instinct for dancing (read: got no natural rhythm) can manage to mechanically ape some moves they saw somewhere on Dance Fever or some deal?

My objection to all of these genres, which I do blatantly disregard and eschew, is that it is robotic, and not in any amusing or provocative way. It's a clock ticking, it's march time, get in line to that beat, hup two three four, time to get yo ass to war. It's f**king inhuman, and you lot can't even feel it, much less recognize it with your heads, and it's about removed your heart from the equation entirely.

none of which surprises me, since you can't even really speak the language anymore.

absolutely quantized four-on-the-floor; what is that? can you lot not be bothered to bang on a drum? you have to use loops, you do a little bit of hunting and gathering and bring home some prefabricated thing, and set it as an absolute clock, often it's a two-beat vamp, maybe four, in the bass, which you drew with a pencil, and it goes on and on and on, and this is a Trance affect?

Again, look into the word. it's stultification. you are willing to subject others who are perhaps exceedingly gullible and haven't experienced much music at all, to this and the wheel goes round and round.

you got fascism as an end result of this; you've enabled it. Runagate may be unwilling to make the connection, but I am not.

The godawful thing of this is that if affects music, the production and dissemination of it globally, because this incredibly low common denominator is contagious. watch some footage of how the Axis powers worked it.

so, you have decent, hard-working actual musicians, who can do something other than specify quarters and sixteenths in sequencers and hit the play button, forced to conform to these lowered standards, because they are popular and money talks very loudly when you're hungry.

it sucks. it truly sucks donkey.

[runagate]

& liqih: Well, let it be said that you have an uncanny knack for de-chaosifying it in ways that are frighteningly similar to what I hear in my head were I myself to take the time to mix and match ideas to make them more palatable. Plus daring surprises, a la Charanga I still laugh uncontrollably when I hear it, just the sheer audacity!

I wish you could hang out in my inner ear for a while. The strangest thing about it is the genres that I don't take the time to make in FL that hang ou in there all the time. Weird, avant guitar rock ballads, lydian progression Brazillian toch songs, uptempo pop punk that uses all dominant chords. Lots of stuff I can see you pulling off, though I could only with "real" instruments. I actually make FL songs that have just drums, bass and distorted (virtual) guitar, but they never "gel" right, it's too hard to do electronic rock dynamics when you want to give everything dub delays. Like anyone my habits change once I sit down at the screen and get lost in the fecking technicalities, so it's important to know what you want before you reach for the plug-ins or even turn on the monitor.

@Chris - good points. It's not like I'm trying to convince you I'm not an jerk about it. But think of it this way: I'm ok with alienating people with the harshness of my opinions much as trance people are ok with alienating all other musicians by making trance. It kind of balances out.

Outside our hermetic world of digital music here on KVR all of our music hereabouts would be considered "electronica" with some heavy sociological baggage.

On a side note, it just occured to me that there will come a day when people who make a genre of music that are all total dumfucks (emo? I dunno, something like that) will get hip to software and I'll have to leave the net forever. I should qualify that as "modern emo" cuz apparently Herodotus's wife listens to some old kind that's not like the new kind, none of which I've apparently encountered and if she read this she'd be even more prone to removing my buttocks with a potato peeler.

[annode]

Ah...that got past zone alarm ok. :&)

Sounds like bug music. haha

[vurt]

some girls are bigger than other girls


I aM TH/e MoONMASTER!!!

[herodotus]

A nice piece by a mad scientist from a Stanislaw Lem novel.

[botkiller]

geez, i wish my tracks would incite 4 page threads

[runagate]

Sounds like bug music. haha

Cool!

some girls are bigger than other girls


I aM TH/e MoONMASTER!!!

I always enjoy a good Lizard King moment from a Limey bloke. Er, toke?

A nice piece by a mad scientist from a Stanislaw Lem novel.

That's over my head.

Aren't computer musicians essentially mad scientists?

geez, i wish my tracks would incite 4 page threads

Given time, I daresay they will. Expecially if you post a 4-page dissertation on what you do with VSTs and then start a fight with arke

Your songs are much more enjoyable than mine and people will be kicking themselves that they missed them. Certainly I don't know how I missed your myspace page for so long.

I'd let this thread die right here and now except I really, really dig the bad-ass remix. Check it out if you haven't folks! I'm still laughing about it, which with me is always a good sign, though irl it occasionally disconcerts people til they learn I always laugh at music that amazes me.

[lotus2035]

...ME LIKEY TECHNO...ME DUMB..YOU SMART!!..

[jancivil]

I can see you care enough about the argument to be just this articulate

swell

[lotus2035]

I can see you care enough about the argument to be just this articulate

swell

...It makes just as much sense as pages of pseudo-intellectual "I'm smarter than you and I'm not going to lose this argument" babble....which in the end is just as pointless and changes NOTHING...

[jancivil]

I can see you care enough about the argument to be just this articulate

swell

...It makes just as much sense as pages of pseudo-intellectual "I'm smarter than you and I'm not going to lose this argument" babble....which in the end is just as pointless and changes NOTHING...

well, you know, my argument addressed things specifically, and was an argument. what is this shit?
I expect nothing to change, you're stuck!

- your lack of any argument (but you post some noise anyway) is just one aspect of this amazing lack. I got tired of holding my breath on it. I totally eschewed posting it in any thread where you dudes hang out, it's not my thing, and like I said, I have no issue with how people choose to waste time on a planet.

If this behavior lacked consequences for the rest of the world, I'd ignore it. Thing is (which I took the time to construct an argument behind):

I think you're entrained to not have any interest in rhythm, to be lazy, you expect the machines you bought to do all your work for you, and your thinking appears to be corrupt... and this sort of stupidity is contagious, as I said;

your MO seem to be supporting my point very well.

[blortblort]

though it probably has NO place here, this whole discussion brought me back to a place in my life when I wondered why I liked so many different kinds of music...I mean everything from the experimental bangin' and scrapping you are likely to hear some nights on various college radio stations to stuff that would embarrass most folks that happen by kvr
some time in the late 80's I heard an interview with Col Bruce Hampton... on a college radio station... while the Colonel was a little difficult to manage- the interviewer did give him a good question: "what is good music?"
and while I'm certainly paraphrasing...His answer is a good one:
"good music has to have some element of folk or jazz and a sense of emotional urgency"

this has stuck with me.
sure- it's a bit of an open statement still subject to interpretations, but for me- it resonates... and while it's not necessarily a litmus test- sometimes I do use the "Hampton criteria" when I'm wondering *why* I like a tune.

...I've never had to use in when listening to runny's stuff... or Zircon's
then again- I'll pick up Slayer at the same time I buy an Oscar Peterson disc, so what do I know...

I like Thai food. I *am* certain of that.

[eddditted for words and stuff]

[vurt]

I always enjoy a good Lizard King moment from a Limey bloke. Er, toke?

dont remember typing that, not here anyway...


interesting piece/tune/song/meandering as ever


wish i didnt have so much work to do, too busy for the fun times
been given some new noise toys to be having fun with and my fingers are itching!!!!

[Arglebargle]

wtf??