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Arglebargle wrote:wtf?? :o

who knew :o ?

Post

jancivil wrote:
lotus2035 wrote:
jancivil wrote:I can see you care enough about the argument to be just this articulate

swell
...It makes just as much sense as pages of pseudo-intellectual "I'm smarter than you and I'm not going to lose this argument" babble....which in the end is just as pointless and changes NOTHING...
well, you know, my argument addressed things specifically, and was an argument. what is this shit?
I expect nothing to change, you're stuck!

- your lack of any argument (but you post some noise anyway) is just one aspect of this amazing lack. I got tired of holding my breath on it. I totally eschewed posting it in any thread where you dudes hang out, it's not my thing, and like I said, I have no issue with how people choose to waste time on a planet.

If this behavior lacked consequences for the rest of the world, I'd ignore it. Thing is (which I took the time to construct an argument behind):

I think you're entrained to not have any interest in rhythm, to be lazy, you expect the machines you bought to do all your work for you, and your thinking appears to be corrupt... and this sort of stupidity is contagious, as I said;

your MO seem to be supporting my point very well.

..I made two posts, one in jest and you lump me in with "you dudes"!!... I happen to listen to a wide variety of music and am no genre-bunny...

Anyway, its my opinion that those who seem to have difficulty keeping in touch with their own humanity tend to find it more difficult to deal with things they deem "non-human" when discussing music and tend to throw words like "cold" "sterile" "unfeeling" etc around as if they have some kind of monopoly on human feeling because all the music they admire is played by real people on "real" instruments...bullshit!!...

what the hell is more real about an electric guitar or a drum kit than a computer anyway?...
and dont say the human behind it. Music on computers doesnt create itself...
A computer is no more unnatural than a saxophone, guitar, drum kit whatever, they dont grow on trees either..
This whole "human" argument is without merit and depends on simply perception of what is acceptable based on the time frame we were born into....
400 years ago Chuck Berry and his band would have been burnt at the stake for playing "Johnny be good" and without a doubt be branded "in-human" or such rubbish....

Listening to perfectly timed beats made by machines does not make one "robotic", in fact, it helps to highlight ones own humanity through the obvious contrast... Its a synergy of human feeling and mathemathical ability, the mixture of the left and right hemispheres of the brain working together... but if you dont get it, you dont get it..

If you knew anything about the effort electronic music production takes you would see how ridiculous using the word LAZY is in context...

EDIT: and thanks for calling me stupid...It seems that my sarcastic post in big letters hit the mark...
Last edited by lotus2035 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

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all the young dudes
messed up on glue
eating dog chews
all the young dudes! :singer:

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blortblort wrote:though it probably has NO place here, this whole discussion brought me back to a place in my life when I wondered why I liked so many different kinds of music...I mean everything from the experimental bangin' and scrapping you are likely to hear some nights on various college radio stations to stuff that would embarrass most folks that happen by kvr
some time in the late 80's I heard an interview with Col Bruce Hampton... on a college radio station... while the Colonel was a little difficult to manage- the interviewer did give him a good question: "what is good music?"
and while I'm certainly paraphrasing...His answer is a good one:
"good music has to have some element of folk or jazz and a sense of emotional urgency"

this has stuck with me.
sure- it's a bit of an open statement still subject to interpretations, but for me- it resonates... and while it's not necessarily a litmus test- sometimes I do use the "Hampton criteria" when I'm wondering *why* I like a tune.
nicely said. I'll boil my thought down to this: it must have some sense of humanity, to be 'good music'.

I, too, like some things that might be laughable in any in-crowd.

I like some seriously simple things, I like basic things, if they work. I think I know what a composition is; it doesn't have to exclude rampant repetition, but if it just fails to unfold at all... well, I've vented already, done that...

thanks for bringing the tone up a notch here, I hijacked dude's topic and went a bit ballistic, by my count. oh well

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Sorry this got 5 pages deep before I chimed in...
Lets see... Gotta say something I've not said about you yet.






























You need to be committed...
Last edited by pattonfreak1 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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quite alright, jancivil :tu:
... do ya like Thai food, too?





:lol:

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blortblort wrote:quite alright, jancivil :tu:
... do ya like Thai food, too?





:lol:
oh hell yes. I like chiles, and I like sweet

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jancivil wrote:I'll boil my thought down to this: it must have some sense of humanity, to be 'good music'.
Seeing as you ignored my last post Ill just ask:
Define "Humanity" - (In terms of music creation)...

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runagate wrote:
justin3am wrote:the explanations doesn't demystify it at all.
3am
Damn, that's too bad :(

I was really hoping that the in-depth walk-through would benefit someone.

I guess I need to make videos or at least have example mp3s that demonstrate step-by-step how to do these tricks.

I really had fun making this song. I know that 50% of everything I use my pluggies for is techniques that some kid reading Computer Music would be excited about, much like I used to be a mere 2 years ago. I want to share.

Image

I actually was looking for this post, thank god it's not ancient yet- I bookmarked it. I told you I'd be studying it being as I'm such a novice- I searched for a few of those plugins and then that turned into frustration from dead links which then transformed into a downloading frenzy from the KVR VST / whatever library.

The struggle continues! Seeing stuff like that really helps. I'm still trying to decipher FL itself, I just got FL7 which with the new audio editor = <333
01014.org - the 01014 net label
:phones: 24/7 label-community radio :phones:
Submit tracks for radio here
twitch

Post

lotus2035 wrote:
jancivil wrote:I'll boil my thought down to this: it must have some sense of humanity, to be 'good music'.
Seeing as you ignored my last post Ill just ask:
Define "Humanity" - (In terms of music creation)...
it is of course easier to say in terms of what defines 'not human'

clockwork quantization:

quarter note = say 120 and the sixteenths are always gon be 480 ticks per minute

two beat loops that repeat 512 times consecutively

'standout' samples stuck onto something to give it 'flava' and it weren't even matched to the tuning of the track; sore thumb as attractor

the cher effect


I could go on, but I'm already belaboring what ought to be perfectly obvious

Post

lotus2035 wrote:
jancivil wrote:
lotus2035 wrote:
jancivil wrote:I can see you care enough about the argument to be just this articulate

swell
...It makes just as much sense as pages of pseudo-intellectual "I'm smarter than you and I'm not going to lose this argument" babble....which in the end is just as pointless and changes NOTHING...
well, you know, my argument addressed things specifically, and was an argument. what is this shit?
I expect nothing to change, you're stuck!

- your lack of any argument (but you post some noise anyway) is just one aspect of this amazing lack. I got tired of holding my breath on it. I totally eschewed posting it in any thread where you dudes hang out, it's not my thing, and like I said, I have no issue with how people choose to waste time on a planet.

If this behavior lacked consequences for the rest of the world, I'd ignore it. Thing is (which I took the time to construct an argument behind):

I think you're entrained to not have any interest in rhythm, to be lazy, you expect the machines you bought to do all your work for you, and your thinking appears to be corrupt... and this sort of stupidity is contagious, as I said;

your MO seem to be supporting my point very well.

..I made two posts, one in jest and you lump me in with "you dudes"!!... I happen to listen to a wide variety of music and am no genre-bunny...

Anyway, its my opinion that those who seem to have difficulty keeping in touch with their own humanity tend to find it more difficult to deal with things they deem "non-human" when discussing music and tend to throw words like "cold" "sterile" "unfeeling" etc around as if they have some kind of monopoly on human feeling because all the music they admire is played by real people on "real" instruments...bullshit!!...

what the hell is more real about an electric guitar or a drum kit than a computer anyway?...
and dont say the human behind it. Music on computers doesnt create itself...
A computer is no more unnatural than a saxophone, guitar, drum kit whatever, they dont grow on trees either..
This whole "human" argument is without merit and depends on simply perception of what is acceptable based on the time frame we were born into....
400 years ago Chuck Berry and his band would have been burnt at the stake for playing "Johnny be good" and without a doubt be branded "in-human" or such rubbish....

Listening to perfectly timed beats made by machines does not make one "robotic", in fact, it helps to highlight ones own humanity through the obvious contrast... Its a synergy of human feeling and mathemathical ability, the mixture of the left and right hemispheres of the brain working together... but if you dont get it, you dont get it..

If you knew anything about the effort electronic music production takes you would see how ridiculous using the word LAZY is in context...

EDIT: and thanks for calling me stupid...It seems that my sarcastic post in big letters hit the mark...
well if you're trying to go for the spinal tap quotient 'fine line between clever and stupid', I do prefer Nigel's clever to yours

you ask about human. then you assert that there is nothing 'not human' about perfectly timed this or that; and I do think you mean perfectly timed tick tock, as opposed to perfectly timed complexities in rhythms

bullshit!

that's 'stupid'

humans don't groove that way;
humans don't move that way, until they are ENTRAINED to do so; IE: it isn't natural

listen to your heart beat -

now, compare it with a clock ticking:

your heart beat is OFF;
it's WRONG

it needs to be CORRECTED doesn't it? :-o

btw, in terms of discourse, there is an actual difference between saying what you said is stupid, which it demonstrably continues to be, and insulting you personally; I think you're incredibly inexperienced and lacking in perspective, and you tend to say some awfully dumb crap, so I am not going to hold my breath, calling bullshit:


your chuck berry analogy is an excellent example of what I characterized as corrupt thinking
it's not an apt analogy, think about it: the people that MIGHT have, in some hypothetical class, deemed CB 'inhuman' would have actually objected to the UNTIDINESS as inhuman, which is utterly the opposite of your argument
Its a synergy of human feeling and mathemathical ability, the mixture of the left and right hemispheres of the brain working together... but if you dont get it, you dont get it..
hey, you wanna compare the math it takes to do my shit with your 4x4? you have GOT to be kidding me with this stuff

if you're like 16, even 18 years of age, you might be cut some slack, but you're not talking to that crowd every time out.


and things like guitars or drums, which might be made from wood, might grow on trees, also
Last edited by jancivil on Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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wow.
just, wow.

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vurt wrote:wow.
just, wow.
pass it over here man... :hihi:

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...was it my post saying how I appreciate runagate's tidy explanation of his work that brought this back up?

I'll bring my philosophy into this whether that's the case or not.

I'll explain how I think but I will not argue. I will listen intently and then explain how it relates to how I'm thinking along with any corrections I may make in my mind and thoughts therefore, but I will -never- try and change someone else's opinion. Inform, don't impose.

It's incredibly frustrating to do- to suppress the natural feelings that come from seeing someone's thoughts stray from what you deem to be the "best" way of thinking, or rather stray from your own personal thoughts- but behold, it's possible.


Or who knows, maybe I do that because I'm sick of arguing and trying to change people for whatever I think is the better- maybe I'm sick of people trying to change me as well.

Ever hear of a "singularity"? I.E.- a black hole. "Shedding your humanity" to overcome the human condition. To be perfect you can't strive for anything. It's partly due to our natural limitations in language. Now think of that in terms of what's human and what's not, in terms of music. Who are we to set a system to that sort of thing? Pride is the only thing that deems it necessary. You either like it or you don't- they either like or they don't. Just moooooove on. No person on this forum is worth the time of arguing over likes and dislikes or definitions unless it's something that has an objective value. That would make my whole post worthless, but we are all human and to be human is to err.

That's all I'm contributing to this, thank you.
01014.org - the 01014 net label
:phones: 24/7 label-community radio :phones:
Submit tracks for radio here
twitch

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