KVR Audio

macmurphy · Post by **macmurphy** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:00 pm

i really like this - it's a great bit of song writing.

you said - 'I realize by all conventional standards the vocals are terrible.'
absolutely not! as others have said they could use some de-essing in places and maybe a little something to help them sit back in the mix a tiny bit but i really enjoyed them.
other than that, the only real criticism i have of the mix is the drums. they seem to lack punch and are somewhat muffled, especially the snares/hihats.

splendid work!

neil.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:01 pm

macmurphy wrote:i really like this - it's a great bit of song writing.

Thanks very much for the kind words and the useful feedback. I was having a bit of a crisis of confidence about the vocals because I can't sing and my approach is quite weird. But I've gotten enough positive feedback to know that it's not a lost cause.

Today I am going to work on improving the areas you and others have mentioned -- the vox, hi hats, and snare. Perhaps I'll have a new mix up before the weekend is over.

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Sun Jan 27, 2013 3:49 am

I decided to take my time and work on the vocal effects and attempt to improve the overall mix. The original mix was too rushed. After a lot of experimentation, I settled on Audio Damage Kombinat Dva for distorting the vox and Fab Filter Pro-DS for de-essing them. I also made a number of subtle mix changes and added a pad part during the intro.

New Jan 26 mix:

Fragile Gods "Vanishing Point" (320kbps / 11.4MB)

http://soundcloud.com/fragilegods/vanishingpoint

Mariosprt · Post by **Mariosprt** » Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:50 pm

Hey Frantz
Really glad to see this song "re-emerge"

Obvious improvement on the vocal treatment. The verses have more character now, a nice aggressive edge.
I noticed the verses are almost mono and choruses wider. You could go even crazier with the panning of the vocal.
The pad in the intro complements the other sounds nicely.
Love this song and the production, I have only one request:

More please!!!

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:44 am

Mariosprt wrote:Really glad to see this song "re-emerge"

I posted this just before the Sunday Music Cafe stampede and this post immediately "submerged." Thanks very much for listening, commenting, and helping it "re-emerge."

Mariosprt wrote: Obvious improvement on the vocal treatment. The verses have more character now, a nice aggressive edge.
I noticed the verses are almost mono and choruses wider. You could go even crazier with the panning of the vocal.

There are some subtle stereo echoes on the verses but, you are correct, the verse vocal is primarily mono. I did experiment with some more extreme vocal effects but found them distracting. I probably should have tried panning the vox but am pretty happy with how it turned out and would like to move on to the next track.

Mariosprt wrote: Love this song and the production, I have only one request:

More please!!!

Yes sir! There will definitely be more. Thanks for the encouragement.

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:06 pm

hello Mr. Frantz, major improvement of the vocals in the new version, would you be interested in hearing a remaster i did of this song? i think it improves the punchiness it lacks that i read elsewhere without making it sound over compressed.

Mariosprt · Post by **Mariosprt** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 8:58 pm

FrantzM wrote:Sunday Music Cafe stampede

I just posted a track, I hope there isn't a tuesday night stampede as well

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:31 pm

Mariosprt wrote:I just posted a track, I hope there isn't a tuesday night stampede as well

No need to worry. By Tuesday, the stampede is over and tumbleweeds are blowing through the Cafe.

I will check out your track when I get home from work tonight.

folderol · Post by **folderol** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:38 pm

Never heard anything like this before

It's very strange and sorta, well... rather good.

I fear KVR has probably corrupted me completely now

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 10:44 pm

layzer wrote:hello Mr. Frantz, major improvement of the vocals in the new version

I'm very glad you're hearing an improvement.

layzer wrote:would you be interested in hearing a remaster i did of this song? i think it improves the punchiness it lacks that i read elsewhere without making it sound over compressed.

I would love to hear it. I would gladly provide the .WAV file of the mix but would be very interested to see what you did with the MP3.

The truth is I haven't figured out the whole mastering thing yet.

I just added some gentle compression on the mix bus using The Glue and normalized the mix. I didn't do any mastering beyond that.

ShysT · Post by **ShysT** » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:15 pm

not my type of music, but it sounds like you know what your doin..keep it up

layzer · Post by **layzer** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 12:33 am

http://home.comcast.net/~layzer/kvr/VanishingPoint.mp3

just did a little spectrum analysis on it to help equalize and make its freq spectrum flatter, added some stereo field enhancement and did some brickwall limiting on it on the last stage. it has a tiny bit of high end sizzle some may not prefer but other than that, i think it sounds very tight. great tune!

Frantz · Post by **Frantz** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:37 am

Wow layzer! That's amazing. Your version really jumps out of the speakers. My version sounds dull and lifeless in comparison.

For my tastes, in your version, the hats are a touch bright and there is a little too much compression. But overall, I think your remaster is a big improvement.

Perhaps I will make your version the "official" mix. I am adding it to post #1 now.

Thanks for doing this. I didn't realize what a difference mastering could make.

I would like to know if people prefer layzer's version.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:17 pm

I prefer your original mix for a few reasons:

- the overall mix balance reflects the sound of the era better, with less obvious compression and less high frequency content.

- the highs are too pronounced in the remix. It's mainly the hi-hats which really stand out. Perhaps if the hats were slightly less up front, the overall mix would sound nicer at the top end.

- the side effect of the high frequency boost in the remix is that those sawtooth based arpeggios have taken on a more trance-unison sound, whereas your original sounds more pleasant and 'analog' to me.

- the bass in the remix sounds a bit boomy here.

Overall your original mix is easier to listen to. It's less fatiguing.

himalaya · Post by **himalaya** » Wed Jan 30, 2013 9:47 pm

I had a listen to both tracks on my headphones this time, and here, surprisingly I prefer the remix. !

The hats are still too prominent, but the bass is just right and the sound stage is more full. The vocal sits better in the mix...hmm.

Mind you the Adam A7 monitors I use always reveal the mix in great detail, whereas my Sennheiser HD280Pro headphones are not as good for critical listening, so perhpas the headphones mask what the monitors reveal.

Anyway, I thought I'd provide another angle on this.

Fragile Gods - "Vanishing Point" (remastered by Seismic & layzer)