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Jace-BeOS
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3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Wed Jun 07, 2017 2:33 pm "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Hello KVR,

https://soundcloud.com/dysamoria/we-eac ... -3-20-2017

i've been sitting on this for a couple months because my companion said she wanted a better phrase for one of the lines...and failed to provide one to me (as an activist, she's burned out on certain phrases). So i decided to just share it as is. i'm not sure about the mixing or my vocal performance, but it's just a demo anyway (it's not like i'll be hiring any mixing and mastering engineer any time soon, or ever publishing an album...).

The lyrics are in the song description on SoundCloud.

Any feedback is welcome. I'll check back later.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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annode
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6007 posts since 28 Mar, 2003, from Location: Location

Postby annode; Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:23 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

This has a lot of potential I think.
The song sounds basically good...arrangement is good, I think your vocal is good also, but not at all processed well.(I can't give any assistance in that area)
There are quite a few problems production wise, but all and all you delivered where others fall short.
....................Don`t blame me for 'The Roots', I just live here. :x
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:54 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

annode wrote:This has a lot of potential I think.
The song sounds basically good...arrangement is good, I think your vocal is good also, but not at all processed well.(I can't give any assistance in that area)
There are quite a few problems production wise, but all and all you delivered where others fall short.


Thank you for listening. Yeah, i knew the vocals are a problem area in terms of mixing and filtering. My "studio" room isn't treated and i cannot afford to treat it. The louder i sing, the more the room's reflections cause a problem. When i had the vocals mixed louder, i didn't like the sound of them. i also really have never found a way to process my vocals consistently. Some songs they sound fine and other they sound terrible to me (again, the louder i sing, the worse it gets, and the room is the problem; i can't throw money at it, but i would love to be able to).
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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ChamMusic
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228 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:40 pm Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Shades of Marilyn Manson!!!

This has great potential, but is not quite there yet for me...

Production needs work:
Sounds are too mashed together overall - need separation in terms of timbre choices / EQ / depth of field / stereo placement.

Vocals - need reprocessing so they are more upfront and clear.

I would also want a little more 'downtime' from the full on style...that would make the heavy, industrial vibe even more effective.
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:37 pm Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Thanks for the comments, ChamMusic :-) I do want to change the vocals at some point, but i think i will have to come back to it a little later because it might involve just re-recording them from scratch and trying different processing.

Yeah, the track is a bit "full-on" and i've gone back and forth about whether i want to do anything about that. Every now and then i really want a track of mine to do that. Breaks up the consistency of my stuff a bit ;-) Or did you mean the dynamics are too compressed?

As for the sounds being mashed together... i am not great at mixing; i probably need to learn to carve out frequencies from each and every track to fit them all together more complimentary. There's also a taste issue, too. You might not like mine ;-) Though the stereo placement is certainly a thing i can examine.

Thanks again for listening and offering some feedback :-)
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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Frantz
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4253 posts since 18 Jul, 2008, from New York

Postby Frantz; Thu Jun 08, 2017 6:28 pm Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

The song is excellent. One of your best. Lots of variety switching between spoken parts, verses and choruses.

I agree with the others the mix needs a lot of work. The vocals are often buried in the mix. But I like the vox and wouldn't want you to re-record them since they have just the right pissed-off edge.I suggest revisiting the mix later.
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ChamMusic
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228 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:17 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Definitely agree with Frantz...think carefully about re-recording those vocals as they DO have an effective rebellious edge...I would try and reprocess / remix first, maybe? At least make sure that any new recording has a similar vibe!

"There's also a taste issue, too. You might not like mine" - A good point, but in terms of in yer face / heavy / distorted / aggressive sounds, your track is 'lite' compared to some of the stuff I've listened to over the years! :0) I have quite extreme and seriously eclectic tastes in music!:0)

Also:

I think that successfully mixing / mastering 'heavy' tracks is one of the most difficult production tasks around! I did it for quite a few years in a local studio and NEVER felt that I had totally 100% achieved the sound I was looking for at any point! :0)

Might be useful - all makes good sense:
http://www.musicradar.com/tuition/guita ... ips-150156
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Fri Jun 09, 2017 7:55 pm Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Thank you both for the suggestions and advice :-) I'll definitely give that Music Radar article a read (and a try); any mixing tips are worth reading and trying.

Indeed, I really want to create some very heavy and aggressive songs and I'm not good at putting all that sound together! :-o I was working on another track with three very aggressive sections all day today. That one seems a lot clearer overall but the heavy sections are still kind of loaded up without the clarity I want (not too far off though).

I'm on the fence about the performance of the vocals. I was sort of going for a more mild performance to compliment the aggressive music. I've gotten conflicting opinions on it. Some people think it has the right edge. My one close friend wanted it to be more aggressive to fit the subject matter of the lyrics. I might try some alternative takes in the near future, when I get to feeling ready to tackle the mixing again.

Cheers!
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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seismic1
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8547 posts since 13 Mar, 2009, from UK

Postby seismic1; Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:28 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

It's a great song, but I thought it was too short. I would like to have heard another verse/chorus. Maybe your current ending could be made into a quieter bridge section containing a synth solo/instrumental in there before returning to the verse. Regarding the vocals, the spoken sections and the choruses sounded good to me. That makes me suspect that the verse vocals may be slightly too low in the mix or interacting poorly with something else in there.

Good work :)
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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
 
3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Tue Jun 13, 2017 5:47 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Thanks for listening and offering feedback, seismic1. :-)

Lots of my tracks are rather short; I have to expend extra mental effort on making them longer. I'm not sure whether the length of this one is right for me just yet, but I do think of what an album might be like if I put one together. Plenty of songs on my favorite albums are "short and sweet"... though I'm not declaring my own track to be sweet, ha ha :hihi:

As for the mixing... I wonder if the biggest issue is the intelligibility of the vocals.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
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8676 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:16 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Jace-BeOS wrote:
annode wrote:This has a lot of potential I think.
The song sounds basically good...arrangement is good, I think your vocal is good also, but not at all processed well.(I can't give any assistance in that area)
There are quite a few problems production wise, but all and all you delivered where others fall short.


Thank you for listening. Yeah, i knew the vocals are a problem area in terms of mixing and filtering. My "studio" room isn't treated and i cannot afford to treat it. The louder i sing, the more the room's reflections cause a problem. When i had the vocals mixed louder, i didn't like the sound of them. i also really have never found a way to process my vocals consistently. Some songs they sound fine and other they sound terrible to me (again, the louder i sing, the worse it gets, and the room is the problem; i can't throw money at it, but i would love to be able to).


I wonder if being able to sing louder would also nix some of the pitching issues of the sung parts, which are often due to not being able to really commit to the note. In this case, the pitch seems to waver a little later, which makes sense if you are capping your power/volume.

Going somewhere where you have more freedom to belt the vocals out might solve those issues, and the various others that you mention.

Maybe you have rehearsal studios near you. Booking a couple of hours in a room, when no other bands are around might be one option. What about in the great outdoors?
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Jace-BeOS
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3799 posts since 7 Jan, 2005, from Corporate States of America

Postby Jace-BeOS; Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:53 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:
annode wrote:This has a lot of potential I think.
The song sounds basically good...arrangement is good, I think your vocal is good also, but not at all processed well.(I can't give any assistance in that area)
There are quite a few problems production wise, but all and all you delivered where others fall short.


Thank you for listening. Yeah, i knew the vocals are a problem area in terms of mixing and filtering. My "studio" room isn't treated and i cannot afford to treat it. The louder i sing, the more the room's reflections cause a problem. When i had the vocals mixed louder, i didn't like the sound of them. i also really have never found a way to process my vocals consistently. Some songs they sound fine and other they sound terrible to me (again, the louder i sing, the worse it gets, and the room is the problem; i can't throw money at it, but i would love to be able to).


I wonder if being able to sing louder would also nix some of the pitching issues of the sung parts, which are often due to not being able to really commit to the note. In this case, the pitch seems to waver a little later, which makes sense if you are capping your power/volume.

Going somewhere where you have more freedom to belt the vocals out might solve those issues, and the various others that you mention.

Maybe you have rehearsal studios near you. Booking a couple of hours in a room, when no other bands are around might be one option. What about in the great outdoors?


Smart analysis, thanks :-) It's definitely more work to be on pitch with low volume (it's also hard at scream levels, I'm finding, ha ha). It would be grand if I could try out a professional studio to see what the definite differences are. But I'm living on disability and in poverty. While there's actually a studio in a building behind my house, I don't know the owner and I've no idea what he's got in terms of vocal recording facilities (though I'm sure I can't afford time there). I know no studio folks in a "hey, we're friends, can I use some of your down time?" sort of way.

As for outside, it's a neat idea. I can't think of a place I could set up and have power, be reasonably confident of security/safety of myself and my gear, and not be arrested for terrifying locals with my screaming into a microphone (and at tech issues) :hihi:
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
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8676 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:30 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

Jace-BeOS wrote:
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Jace-BeOS wrote:
annode wrote:This has a lot of potential I think.
The song sounds basically good...arrangement is good, I think your vocal is good also, but not at all processed well.(I can't give any assistance in that area)
There are quite a few problems production wise, but all and all you delivered where others fall short.


Thank you for listening. Yeah, i knew the vocals are a problem area in terms of mixing and filtering. My "studio" room isn't treated and i cannot afford to treat it. The louder i sing, the more the room's reflections cause a problem. When i had the vocals mixed louder, i didn't like the sound of them. i also really have never found a way to process my vocals consistently. Some songs they sound fine and other they sound terrible to me (again, the louder i sing, the worse it gets, and the room is the problem; i can't throw money at it, but i would love to be able to).


I wonder if being able to sing louder would also nix some of the pitching issues of the sung parts, which are often due to not being able to really commit to the note. In this case, the pitch seems to waver a little later, which makes sense if you are capping your power/volume.

Going somewhere where you have more freedom to belt the vocals out might solve those issues, and the various others that you mention.

Maybe you have rehearsal studios near you. Booking a couple of hours in a room, when no other bands are around might be one option. What about in the great outdoors?


Smart analysis, thanks :-) It's definitely more work to be on pitch with low volume (it's also hard at scream levels, I'm finding, ha ha). It would be grand if I could try out a professional studio to see what the definite differences are. But I'm living on disability and in poverty. While there's actually a studio in a building behind my house, I don't know the owner and I've no idea what he's got in terms of vocal recording facilities (though I'm sure I can't afford time there). I know no studio folks in a "hey, we're friends, can I use some of your down time?" sort of way.

As for outside, it's a neat idea. I can't think of a place I could set up and have power, be reasonably confident of security/safety of myself and my gear, and not be arrested for terrifying locals with my screaming into a microphone (and at tech issues) :hihi:


I wasn't thinking so much of professional studios, but more of rehearsal rooms. Normally, these rooms are soundproofed well enough to stop the noise of the various bands from spilling into each other. If you find a time when no other band is booked, even better. You would just need to take along a little mobile rig, and record yourself.

Maybe there is a way of negotiating 'out of hours' studio time in exchange for something else (You are a designer/graphic artist, right?)

As for outside: It would take a small investment, but could yield interesting results. i have an apogee 'One' (iOS version), as it can power itself off batteries, and has a decent built-in mic. If paired with an iPhone (stuffed in your pocket), it is a pretty inconspicuous, yet really powerful, set up. There are also field records that allow xlr mic input, and 4-track recording.

With even less investment, you can get a decent usb power bank (I have one of these \; https://www.amazon.com/Portable-Charger ... r+16750mAh), which would allow you to power a usb interface, hub etc. Of course, then you definitely start to become THE guy to mug :wink:
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ChamMusic
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228 posts since 12 Jun, 2006, from Birmingham, UK

Postby ChamMusic; Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:49 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

"As for recording outside: It would take a small investment, but could yield interesting results."

Approach this carefully, especially in terms of spending money on it! It's possible, but very tricky at best...good place to fill those lungs and practise though!

Even in the quietest rural area, background ambient noise is almost constantly there in some shape or form + there's the obvious ambience issues. Field recording is one thing, getting a clear, studio-style vocal is another one entirely.

Try a car - a great vocal booth...acoustically pretty dry and quite well insulated sonically. You'll have to sing sitting down, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as you sit up straight!
Mark Taylor
Chameleon Music
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el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
 
8676 posts since 24 May, 2009, from A galaxy, far far away

Postby el-bo (formerly ebow); Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:11 am Re: "We, Each Other" - new [loud] song from dysamoria

ChamMusic wrote:"As for recording outside: It would take a small investment, but could yield interesting results."

Approach this carefully, especially in terms of spending money on it! It's possible, but very tricky at best...good place to fill those lungs and practise though!

Even in the quietest rural area, background ambient noise is almost constantly there in some shape or form + there's the obvious ambience issues. Field recording is one thing, getting a clear, studio-style vocal is another one entirely.

Try a car - a great vocal booth...acoustically pretty dry and quite well insulated sonically. You'll have to sing sitting down, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as long as you sit up straight!


While I have spent the last month living in a bustling city, I did spend the last five years in the quietest rural town (inhabitants : 80), which had ton of open space, and many places where this could have worked, without being a nuicanse to anyone, and sheltered from much of the unwanted ambience. I do realise that this might not be possible for most people.

As for cost? I'm pretty sure that there are cheap usb-xlr interfaces that provide phantom power, and are comparible with smartphones. One of those might work.

Anyway, it was just a thought that maybe I should have looked into further, before suggesting :wink:
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