(the product formerly known as) Epoch
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- KVRist
- 119 posts since 16 Jun, 2009
to Colin:
Whats about some LEDs to get the feeling of a moog or arp sequencer?
Whats a Start Trigger?
to Jue:
nice to see you here
learned a lot of your creations
they are very inspiring
are you still working on your CartesianSeqs?
Whats about some LEDs to get the feeling of a moog or arp sequencer?
Whats a Start Trigger?
to Jue:
nice to see you here
learned a lot of your creations
they are very inspiring
are you still working on your CartesianSeqs?
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- KVRAF
- 2678 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK
I think the Logic Level Display modules - which illuminate when receiving a high gate signal - will suffice (and if not, nag me during beta and I'll see if this can be improved: I expect this will tie into the custom UI bits I've been planning.)jowen wrote:to Colin:
Whats about some LEDs to get the feeling of a moog or arp sequencer?
The Start Trigger module produces a single impulse, a high gate signal, when the transport starts. You can use this to trigger components once only, and to initialise or reset values. I generally use it in networks with feedback or recursion, into which I'll apply specific starting conditions. I've a really great set-up to demonstrate this: using Start Triggers to create the initial state, this patch generates music based on Feigenbaum's chaotic algorithms of animal populations.Whats a Start Trigger?
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 9 Dec, 2012
Hello,
seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
if the the Buttons change their color when pressed or triggered then they could also been used as a kind of LED.
Think I have to start to learn LUA??
best
jue
seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
if the the Buttons change their color when pressed or triggered then they could also been used as a kind of LED.
Think I have to start to learn LUA??
best
jue
Located in the European Outback
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- KVRAF
- 2678 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK
Yes, that's exactly right.jue wrote: seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
It's definitely not required, but in many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules. If it's any consolation though, you won't need to use Lua for your requested 8 and 16 port switches, because I'm adding them into the core module set.jue wrote:Think I have to start to learn LUA??
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.
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- KVRist
- 88 posts since 9 Dec, 2012
Hello,
have to see whats going on here, could not send my text because of a spam alert?:shock:
Whats this? Any help?
No company names or similar used.
best
jue
Mod Edit: I've pasted the contents of jue's post below, thereby defeating the spam-checker!
Modules or Lua whats the better solution?
Things like a GateSeq with seperate gate outputs and envelopes for each step is easy to do with the discrete modules, harder for me with the LUA modul, but isnt it less CPU with it?
Or a simulation of a Sequencer were each played note from the keyboard triggers and transposes a komplete sequencer array with a lot of modules for each key, could this not be easier to handle with a LUA Module if I could program it? Builded one in the past but with a range of 20 notes only, because my MacBook could not handle more and there were several hundred modules used.
You see there are a lot of ideas to workout.
best
jue
have to see whats going on here, could not send my text because of a spam alert?:shock:
Whats this? Any help?
No company names or similar used.
best
jue
Mod Edit: I've pasted the contents of jue's post below, thereby defeating the spam-checker!
With your list there are a lot of possibilities with the discrete modules but what is about CPU?many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules
Modules or Lua whats the better solution?
Things like a GateSeq with seperate gate outputs and envelopes for each step is easy to do with the discrete modules, harder for me with the LUA modul, but isnt it less CPU with it?
Or a simulation of a Sequencer were each played note from the keyboard triggers and transposes a komplete sequencer array with a lot of modules for each key, could this not be easier to handle with a LUA Module if I could program it? Builded one in the past but with a range of 20 notes only, because my MacBook could not handle more and there were several hundred modules used.
You see there are a lot of ideas to workout.
best
jue
- KVRAF
- 35268 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
Any chance of JS support too? - would be cool to port over some of the many JS plugins as modulescolin@loomer wrote:Yes, that's exactly right.jue wrote: seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
It's definitely not required, but in many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules. If it's any consolation though, you won't need to use Lua for your requested 8 and 16 port switches, because I'm adding them into the core module set.jue wrote:Think I have to start to learn LUA??
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- KVRAF
- 2678 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK
Bit weird, but I know KVR's spam filter can be a little over-zealous at times. If you private message or email me your post's content, I should be able to manually add it.jue wrote:Hello,
have to see whats going on here, could not send my text because of a spam alert?:shock:
Whats this? Any help?
No company names or similar used.
best
jue
Thanks for the suggestion: I've added to the 'must look into' list. At the moment, I haven't got enough time to really evaluate what adding JS support would entail, but I definitely will take a serious look when schedule eases up!Any chance of JS support too? - would be cool to port over some of the many JS plugins as modules
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.
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- KVRAF
- 2678 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK
If we are talking about single modules, then discrete modules are less taxing on the CPU. The advantage of Lua is that we can replace tens, or even hundreds, of modules with a single script: in these scenarios, Lua is king. When a patch reaches a certain level of complexity, it will often behove you to replace portions with a script.With your list there are a lot of possibilities with the discrete modules but what is about CPU?
Modules or Lua whats the better solution?
Either way: Epoch is quick. My last profiling session, I was running a patch of several thousand modules - for testing purposes, I hasten to add, this is in no way typical of the amount of modules in a regular preset - and Epoch was barely hitting a few percent of CPU usage, and this on a decrepit P4 1.8GHz machine.
When Epoch is about to release, and I am confident there won't be further significant changes to the modular code, I'll do some profiling and see if I can get solid numbers on modules vs equivalent Lua scripts.
It really depends on what this simulation actually involved. Transposing a sequence in Epoch really only takes two modules: the sequencer, and the modulation source (perhaps a MIDI Note Trigger in this case?). Connect the source's output to the sequencer's transpose input, and we are done!Or a simulation of a Sequencer were each played note from the keyboard triggers and transposes a komplete sequencer array with a lot of modules for each key, could this not be easier to handle with a LUA Module if I could program it? Builded one in the past but with a range of 20 notes only, because my MacBook could not handle more and there were several hundred modules used.
As a general guideline for when to use Lua vs when to use discrete modules, I'd suggest patch complexity is more important than CPU usage. Some things are just better represented with modules and cables; other algorithms are more clearly understood when scripted.
I've found a little time this evening to research JS. It's certainly given me some great ideas for the custom UI, and for improvements I can make to the Lua modules: thanks again for the suggestion.Any chance of JS support too?
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.
- KVRAF
- 35268 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
It seems to be very fast and relatively easy to use too, even for non coding familiar people like me.colin@loomer wrote:I've found a little time this evening to research JS. It's certainly given me some great ideas for the custom UI, and for improvements I can make to the Lua modules: thanks again for the suggestion.Any chance of JS support too?
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- KVRAF
- 2194 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK
Discovering this thread (how did I miss it ?) has suddenly brightened my day considerably.
Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !
Would I be correct in thinking that I can place items on a timeline (perhaps with minutes/seconds as well as bars/beats) that will trigger independent/unrelated sequences with full modular construction ? And these will be able to control (hosted ?) VSTs ?
I'm glad to see mention of external MIDI as well, and CV signals, as this will mean it should connect up to my Sonic Core Modular nicely... I wonder if that could be bidirectional.... hmm.
I really miss Numerology from the Mac, and was reluctantly wondering if the latest modular extensions in Reason may be the only direction forward, but perhaps this is about to answer my call.
Very excited, and really looking forward to this.
Edit: So to pose a question - Will I be able to place Start Triggers on the timeline ?
Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !
Would I be correct in thinking that I can place items on a timeline (perhaps with minutes/seconds as well as bars/beats) that will trigger independent/unrelated sequences with full modular construction ? And these will be able to control (hosted ?) VSTs ?
I'm glad to see mention of external MIDI as well, and CV signals, as this will mean it should connect up to my Sonic Core Modular nicely... I wonder if that could be bidirectional.... hmm.
I really miss Numerology from the Mac, and was reluctantly wondering if the latest modular extensions in Reason may be the only direction forward, but perhaps this is about to answer my call.
Very excited, and really looking forward to this.
Edit: So to pose a question - Will I be able to place Start Triggers on the timeline ?
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- KVRAF
- 2357 posts since 24 Nov, 2012
that's how I felt when I came across this a few weeks ago - except I've been wanting this for even longer !koalaboy wrote:Discovering this thread (how did I miss it ?) has suddenly brightened my day considerably.
Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !
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Very excited, and really looking forward to this.
so koalaboy are youse from Straya?
what you don't know only makes you stronger
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- KVRAF
- 2194 posts since 18 Mar, 2006 from Plymouth, UK
Not at all. Thoroughly Englishwoggle wrote:so koalaboy are youse from Straya?
Having now read the thread several times over, I'm beyond excitement. Epoch sounds absolutely perfect, and just what I've been wanting for years. I've come close to buying Max/MSP on several occasions but could never quite get on with the signal flow, and it seemed more 'experimental' than what I'm looking for.
If this is available soon (looks how far Bournemouth is on Google Maps), it may just be the push I need to get my music back on track. Having just done a clean install of Windows 7, today would be about perfect, but I suspect Colin has other things in mind, like maybe Christmas, etc..
Every time I fight with Modular IV, wondering quite who designed the interface, or try to frig Live to work in the way I want, ot force myself to be more 'conformist' and use Studio One, I'm convinced there must be a better way.
I now live in hope.
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- KVRAF
- 2678 posts since 25 Aug, 2003 from Bournemouth, UK
'fraid so. With the best will in the world, the chances of this getting to beta over the Christmas period is pretty slim. So 2013 it is. I have put the additional development time to good use though: things like completely seamless Lua compilation - great for 'live coding' music - was worth the extra hours.Seems like a mighty long time a' comin...
2013?
Thanks!Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !
That is the gist of it, with a minor caveat: currently the timeline is only bars and beats, although minutes and seconds is pencilled in for a future revision.Would I be correct in thinking that I can place items on a timeline (perhaps with minutes/seconds as well as bars/beats) that will trigger independent/unrelated sequences with full modular construction ? And these will be able to control (hosted ?) VSTs ?
Not directly: currently (and I do emphasise CURRENTLY, future revisions will change this), the only things placeable on the timeline are the main types of Sequencer: mono note, cv, and drum sequencer. But each can be uniquely running at it's own timebase, polyrhythmic fans'll be enamoured to hear. (Lua can also read the current timeline position though, so in theory you could create your own timeline dependent modules.)So to pose a question - Will I be able to place Start Triggers on the timeline ?
A Start Trigger, meanwhile, is a module that sends a high gate signal only when the transport starts. You'll use it to initialise certain states (similiar-ish to a loadbang.) I think I've only ever used it with certain types of complex feedback driven algorithms, so it's definitely an advanced thing, not a day-to-day type module.
Reading between the lines, I assume what you're asking is, can I start/stop sequencers independently, and the answer is yes. Via MIDI control, via the UI, or most interestingly, via a sequencer's modulateable power input. So you can have, for example, sequencers powering on other sequencers, or use complex logic to decide when sequencers will start or stop.
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm afraid Christmas has dented the schedule slightly, but in all honesty, I'm thankful for an excuse to get away from coding for a few days! By the way, Plymouth to Bournemouth is only a couple of hours, but I'd recommend coming by boat because we're currently submerged in seasonal floods!If this is available soon (looks how far Bournemouth is on Google Maps), it may just be the push I need to get my music back on track. Having just done a clean install of Windows 7, today would be about perfect, but I suspect Colin has other things in mind, like maybe Christmas, etc..
Architect, the modular MIDI toolkit, beta now available for macOS, Windows, and Linux.