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jowen
KVRist
 
112 posts since 16 Jun, 2009

Postby jowen; Mon Dec 10, 2012 6:20 am

to Colin:
Whats about some LEDs to get the feeling of a moog or arp sequencer?
Whats a Start Trigger?

to Jue:
nice to see you here
learned a lot of your creations
they are very inspiring
are you still working on your CartesianSeqs?
colin@loomer
KVRian
 
1135 posts since 25 Aug, 2003, from Bournemouth, UK

Postby colin@loomer; Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:01 am

jowen wrote:to Colin:
Whats about some LEDs to get the feeling of a moog or arp sequencer?
I think the Logic Level Display modules - which illuminate when receiving a high gate signal - will suffice (and if not, nag me during beta and I'll see if this can be improved: I expect this will tie into the custom UI bits I've been planning.)

Whats a Start Trigger?
The Start Trigger module produces a single impulse, a high gate signal, when the transport starts. You can use this to trigger components once only, and to initialise or reset values. I generally use it in networks with feedback or recursion, into which I'll apply specific starting conditions. I've a really great set-up to demonstrate this: using Start Triggers to create the initial state, this patch generates music based on Feigenbaum's chaotic algorithms of animal populations.
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jue
KVRist
 
71 posts since 9 Dec, 2012

Postby jue; Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:33 am

Hello,

seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?

if the the Buttons change their color when pressed or triggered then they could also been used as a kind of LED.

Think I have to start to learn LUA?? :roll:

best
jue
Located in the European Outback
colin@loomer
KVRian
 
1135 posts since 25 Aug, 2003, from Bournemouth, UK

Postby colin@loomer; Mon Dec 10, 2012 8:42 am

jue wrote:seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
Yes, that's exactly right.

jue wrote:Think I have to start to learn LUA??
It's definitely not required, but in many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules. If it's any consolation though, you won't need to use Lua for your requested 8 and 16 port switches, because I'm adding them into the core module set.
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jue
KVRist
 
71 posts since 9 Dec, 2012

Postby jue; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:18 am

Hello,

have to see whats going on here, could not send my text because of a spam alert?:shock:
Whats this? Any help?
No company names or similar used.

best
jue

Mod Edit: I've pasted the contents of jue's post below, thereby defeating the spam-checker!

many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules


With your list there are a lot of possibilities with the discrete modules but what is about CPU?
Modules or Lua whats the better solution?

Things like a GateSeq with seperate gate outputs and envelopes for each step is easy to do with the discrete modules, harder for me with the LUA modul, but isnt it less CPU with it?

Or a simulation of a Sequencer were each played note from the keyboard triggers and transposes a komplete sequencer array with a lot of modules for each key, could this not be easier to handle with a LUA Module if I could program it? Builded one in the past but with a range of 20 notes only, because my MacBook could not handle more and there were several hundred modules used.

You see there are a lot of ideas to workout.

best
jue
User avatar
aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
29423 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:22 am

colin@loomer wrote:
jue wrote:seems the Start Trigger is also to use like a LoadBang in MAX ?
Yes, that's exactly right.

jue wrote:Think I have to start to learn LUA??
It's definitely not required, but in many cases it's quicker and easier to write a Lua script than to build the equivalent from discrete modules. If it's any consolation though, you won't need to use Lua for your requested 8 and 16 port switches, because I'm adding them into the core module set.


Any chance of JS support too? - would be cool to port over some of the many JS plugins as modules
colin@loomer
KVRian
 
1135 posts since 25 Aug, 2003, from Bournemouth, UK

Postby colin@loomer; Mon Dec 10, 2012 10:35 am

jue wrote:Hello,

have to see whats going on here, could not send my text because of a spam alert?:shock:
Whats this? Any help?
No company names or similar used.

best
jue

Bit weird, but I know KVR's spam filter can be a little over-zealous at times. If you private message or email me your post's content, I should be able to manually add it.

Any chance of JS support too? - would be cool to port over some of the many JS plugins as modules
Thanks for the suggestion: I've added to the 'must look into' list. At the moment, I haven't got enough time to really evaluate what adding JS support would entail, but I definitely will take a serious look when schedule eases up!
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colin@loomer
KVRian
 
1135 posts since 25 Aug, 2003, from Bournemouth, UK

Postby colin@loomer; Mon Dec 10, 2012 5:09 pm

With your list there are a lot of possibilities with the discrete modules but what is about CPU?
Modules or Lua whats the better solution?


If we are talking about single modules, then discrete modules are less taxing on the CPU. The advantage of Lua is that we can replace tens, or even hundreds, of modules with a single script: in these scenarios, Lua is king. When a patch reaches a certain level of complexity, it will often behove you to replace portions with a script.

Either way: Epoch is quick. My last profiling session, I was running a patch of several thousand modules - for testing purposes, I hasten to add, this is in no way typical of the amount of modules in a regular preset - and Epoch was barely hitting a few percent of CPU usage, and this on a decrepit P4 1.8GHz machine.

When Epoch is about to release, and I am confident there won't be further significant changes to the modular code, I'll do some profiling and see if I can get solid numbers on modules vs equivalent Lua scripts.

Or a simulation of a Sequencer were each played note from the keyboard triggers and transposes a komplete sequencer array with a lot of modules for each key, could this not be easier to handle with a LUA Module if I could program it? Builded one in the past but with a range of 20 notes only, because my MacBook could not handle more and there were several hundred modules used.
It really depends on what this simulation actually involved. Transposing a sequence in Epoch really only takes two modules: the sequencer, and the modulation source (perhaps a MIDI Note Trigger in this case?). Connect the source's output to the sequencer's transpose input, and we are done!

As a general guideline for when to use Lua vs when to use discrete modules, I'd suggest patch complexity is more important than CPU usage. Some things are just better represented with modules and cables; other algorithms are more clearly understood when scripted.

Any chance of JS support too?
I've found a little time this evening to research JS. It's certainly given me some great ideas for the custom UI, and for improvements I can make to the Lua modules: thanks again for the suggestion.
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woggle
KVRAF
 
1511 posts since 23 Nov, 2012

Postby woggle; Mon Dec 10, 2012 11:48 pm

I really hope this is a winner for you Colin - the more detail that is revealed the better / more interesting Epoch seems to be
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aMUSEd
KVRAF
 
29423 posts since 14 Sep, 2002, from In teh net

Postby aMUSEd; Tue Dec 11, 2012 2:37 pm

colin@loomer wrote:
Any chance of JS support too?
I've found a little time this evening to research JS. It's certainly given me some great ideas for the custom UI, and for improvements I can make to the Lua modules: thanks again for the suggestion.


It seems to be very fast and relatively easy to use too, even for non coding familiar people like me.
pinki
KVRian
 
596 posts since 2 Nov, 2006

Postby pinki; Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:09 am

Seems like a mighty long time a' comin...

2013?
..
koalaboy
KVRAF
 
1782 posts since 18 Mar, 2006, from Plymouth, UK

Postby koalaboy; Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:09 pm

Discovering this thread (how did I miss it ?) has suddenly brightened my day considerably.

Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !

Would I be correct in thinking that I can place items on a timeline (perhaps with minutes/seconds as well as bars/beats) that will trigger independent/unrelated sequences with full modular construction ? And these will be able to control (hosted ?) VSTs ?

I'm glad to see mention of external MIDI as well, and CV signals, as this will mean it should connect up to my Sonic Core Modular nicely... I wonder if that could be bidirectional.... hmm.

I really miss Numerology from the Mac, and was reluctantly wondering if the latest modular extensions in Reason may be the only direction forward, but perhaps this is about to answer my call.

Very excited, and really looking forward to this.

8)

Edit: So to pose a question - Will I be able to place Start Triggers on the timeline ?
woggle
KVRAF
 
1511 posts since 23 Nov, 2012

Postby woggle; Sat Dec 22, 2012 12:07 am

koalaboy wrote:Discovering this thread (how did I miss it ?) has suddenly brightened my day considerably.

Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !

------

Very excited, and really looking forward to this.



that's how I felt when I came across this a few weeks ago - except I've been wanting this for even longer ! :)
so koalaboy are youse from Straya?
koalaboy
KVRAF
 
1782 posts since 18 Mar, 2006, from Plymouth, UK

Postby koalaboy; Sat Dec 22, 2012 2:36 am

woggle wrote:so koalaboy are youse from Straya?


Not at all. Thoroughly English ;)

Having now read the thread several times over, I'm beyond excitement. Epoch sounds absolutely perfect, and just what I've been wanting for years. I've come close to buying Max/MSP on several occasions but could never quite get on with the signal flow, and it seemed more 'experimental' than what I'm looking for.

If this is available soon (looks how far Bournemouth is on Google Maps), it may just be the push I need to get my music back on track. Having just done a clean install of Windows 7, today would be about perfect, but I suspect Colin has other things in mind, like maybe Christmas, etc.. :wink:

Every time I fight with Modular IV, wondering quite who designed the interface, or try to frig Live to work in the way I want, ot force myself to be more 'conformist' and use Studio One, I'm convinced there must be a better way.

I now live in hope.

:D
colin@loomer
KVRian
 
1135 posts since 25 Aug, 2003, from Bournemouth, UK

Postby colin@loomer; Sat Dec 22, 2012 10:51 am

Seems like a mighty long time a' comin...

2013?
'fraid so. With the best will in the world, the chances of this getting to beta over the Christmas period is pretty slim. So 2013 it is. I have put the additional development time to good use though: things like completely seamless Lua compilation - great for 'live coding' music - was worth the extra hours.

Unless I've drunk too much Christmas spirit, this is possibly the software I've spent the last few months wondering why nobody has made it yet !
Thanks!

Would I be correct in thinking that I can place items on a timeline (perhaps with minutes/seconds as well as bars/beats) that will trigger independent/unrelated sequences with full modular construction ? And these will be able to control (hosted ?) VSTs ?
That is the gist of it, with a minor caveat: currently the timeline is only bars and beats, although minutes and seconds is pencilled in for a future revision.

So to pose a question - Will I be able to place Start Triggers on the timeline ?
Not directly: currently (and I do emphasise CURRENTLY, future revisions will change this), the only things placeable on the timeline are the main types of Sequencer: mono note, cv, and drum sequencer. But each can be uniquely running at it's own timebase, polyrhythmic fans'll be enamoured to hear. (Lua can also read the current timeline position though, so in theory you could create your own timeline dependent modules.)

A Start Trigger, meanwhile, is a module that sends a high gate signal only when the transport starts. You'll use it to initialise certain states (similiar-ish to a loadbang.) I think I've only ever used it with certain types of complex feedback driven algorithms, so it's definitely an advanced thing, not a day-to-day type module.

Reading between the lines, I assume what you're asking is, can I start/stop sequencers independently, and the answer is yes. Via MIDI control, via the UI, or most interestingly, via a sequencer's modulateable power input. So you can have, for example, sequencers powering on other sequencers, or use complex logic to decide when sequencers will start or stop.

If this is available soon (looks how far Bournemouth is on Google Maps), it may just be the push I need to get my music back on track. Having just done a clean install of Windows 7, today would be about perfect, but I suspect Colin has other things in mind, like maybe Christmas, etc..
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I'm afraid Christmas has dented the schedule slightly, but in all honesty, I'm thankful for an excuse to get away from coding for a few days! By the way, Plymouth to Bournemouth is only a couple of hours, but I'd recommend coming by boat because we're currently submerged in seasonal floods!
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