Future of Sequent ? (13th May update: Sequent 1.3.11)

[taoyoyo]

Hey Colin,

Just downloaded and installed the new Beta.

Given it a quick check (time is against me this month) in Live 9, Machine, Kore and Studio One V2 and so far no problems, all running smoothly. (OSX 10.8.3)

Cheers,

Alan

[artfwo]

Works on 64-bit Linux, but requires re-entering the key, as described earlier.

[colin@loomer]

Works on 64-bit Linux, but requires re-entering the key, as described earlier.

How odd, I could have sworn that minor bug was fixed: I'll give it another look. Can you remember which version you had installed previously?

[colin@loomer]

artfwo, I can't seem to reproduce this bug on my 64-bit Ubuntu system. I've tried upgrading from between a few recent Sequent releases to the latest, and registration details always seem to persist for me.

I'd guess this is something to do with the location, or perhaps access rights, of the Sequent.xml preferences file.

Could you let me know which Linux distro you are using? I'll see if I can reproduce the issue in an environment closer to your own.

Thanks.

[jethrobull]

Hi Colin,

Reaper 64-bit ,Win7 64-bit.
Working fine!

[artfwo]

Could you let me know which Linux distro you are using? I'll see if I can reproduce the issue in an environment closer to your own.

Thanks.

This bug happens on 64-bit Ubuntu (13.04) and is perfectly reproducible on my machine.

By the way, in an attempt to reproduce it I found another quirk that is probably common to all Loomer products.

Here's the story. I copied the entire preferences directory ~/.Loomer to ~/Loomer (note the dot), entered the key and restarted the plugin. To my suprise I found the updated Sequent.xml inside the latter ~/Loomer directory. Not really an issue, but I'd really prefer the plugins to keep their stuff in a single predictable location.

Anyways, I have the buggy options file right here, but it contains my registration information. Can I email/pm the file to you?

[colin@loomer]

Ah yes, I see. For some reason, Sequent seems to be creating two preferences folders: how odd. Could I claim this redundancy is actually a feature, safeguarding against accidental deletion? No?

Seriously though, I'm looking at this now. Thanks for the offer of the preferences file, but I think I have enough information to go on as is. I'll let you know if I need any more input from you.

I'll update the thread when I have something to report.

EDIT: Actually, I was wrong. The second folder is what is referred to internally as the 'Library' folder. In here we place presets and other data which the user is likely to want to be able to see. The preferences file, on the other hand, is in a hidden directory simple because it's not the something the casual user should need to know about. (As an aside, making these paths settable in the UI is on the roadmap; at that point, you'll be able to easily customise Sequent et al to keep all data in whichever location you choose.)

artfwo, do you know which previous version of Sequent you were using? Does this happen even if you don't copy the Sequent.xml file from ~./Loomer to ~/Loomer?

Thanks!

[artfwo]

Cumulus does that too. Either plugin

1. Creates ~/Loomer whenever you're adjusting the settings and
2. Ignores whatever is found in ~/.Loomer no matter if ~/Loomer is there or not.

Both plugins have an "older" version of their preferences in my ~/.Loomer directory. A diff against the "new" ones in ~/Loomer contains the following lines (among many other differences).

Sequent:
- <VALUE name="Version" val="1.3.1"/>
+ <VALUE name="Version" val="1.3.9"/>

Cumulus (beta):
- <VALUE name="Version" val="1.0.0"/>
+ <VALUE name="Version" val="1.0.4"/>

But if an "upgraded" settings file is copied back to ~/.Loomer it is ignored.

I cannot reproduce this problem with other plugins, they all seem to stay inside ~/.Loomer all the time.

The library directory is a bad idea. Presets, preferences and other data (like Cumulus samples) is something I'd prefer to keep away from my sight when I'm not using the plugins. Tbh, I never noticed this bug earlier, because I had a real folder called "Loomer" in my home dir with a backup of Cumulus data which I did before upgrading to the beta version.

The plugins' GUI can already manage the preferences and for anything else it's really easy to navigate to a hidden dir and edit/remove the files, etc. So, I'd suggest sticking with ~/.Loomer at least on Linux. Or maybe something like ~/.local/share/Loomer as per Freedesktop base directory spec. If I ever need to make my Loomer directory visible anywhere, I'll create a symbolic link to .Loomer.

EDIT: I'd prefer not having separate & configurable paths for preferences and presets either. Can't really imagine the good use for them, but can imagine a few problems this might introduce. Are you seriously planning this? But what is this feature good for?

[colin@loomer]

I'd prefer not having separate & configurable paths for preferences and presets either. Can't really imagine the good use for them, but can imagine a few problems this might introduce. Are you seriously planning this? But what is this feature good for?

Haven't committed to a decision on this yet, but it's something that has been asked for quite a lot. It's ideal for people who like to create their own 'portable' installs - a studio on a USB stick, if you will. (And is also something you can already do on Windows, but currently only by editing the preferences file directly. Perhaps, on reflection, it's best left this way, rather than encouraging people to tinker.)

Presets, preferences and other data (like Cumulus samples) is something I'd prefer to keep away from my sight when I'm not using the plugins.

Preferences, I agree, but the presets folder is something people like to have direct access to, if only to make it easier to share and install additional presets. Anecdotally, I've heard a lot of grumbles from people about Mac OS X making the ~/Library folder hidden on 10.7, but I can also perhaps see how expectations over folder visibility may be different from a Linux users perspective.

Thanks for the suggestion though on how the folder structure should work: I'll mull that over, and see if it's an easy change.

I cannot reproduce this problem with other plugins, they all seem to stay inside ~/.Loomer all the time.

Ah, that does give me a clue what this may be then. I'll get back to investigating.

[colin@loomer]

Or maybe something like ~/.local/share/Loomer as per Freedesktop base directory spec.

This seems the best suggestion. It appears the sensible move towards ameliorating Linux $HOME clutter - to my shame, something of which I'm also guilty of! - is to put all user data in this unified location, and the configuration file in XDG_CONFIG_HOME.

Obviously, for the sake of backwards compatibility, the previous locations will still work for existing installs, but fresh installs will now use these recommended folders.

I'll make said changes and post another Linux beta within the next day or so.

[colin@loomer]

I've just uploaded Sequent 1.3.10 beta for Linux 32-bit and 64-bit; download it here.

This version adheres to the XDG Base Directory Specification. The configuration file, Sequent.xml, will now be located in $XDG_CONFIG_HOME. If this is not set, it will default to ~/.config. Presets are now found in $XDG_DATA_HOME, or ~/.local/share by default.

To maintain backwards compatibility, Sequent will still use the legacy preset folder - ~/.Loomer/Sequent/Presets/ - if it exists.

Thanks!

[artfwo]

To maintain backwards compatibility, Sequent will still use the legacy preset folder - ~/.Loomer/Sequent/Presets/ - if it exists.

Thanks! Had to enter the key again though. If other plugins will use those paths, will the legacy folder be used for preferences as well? Or will I have to copy the settings to ~/.config manually to preserve license keys and midi mappings?

[colin@loomer]

If other plugins will use those paths, will the legacy folder be used for preferences as well? Or will I have to copy the settings to ~/.config manually to preserve license keys and midi mappings?

The next releases of each plug-in will always use the $XDG_CONFIG_HOME for configuration files. When the plug-in starts, it will automatically import into a new file any settings from the old preferences file, such as ~/Loomer/Sequent.xml, and remove the now superfluous old file. When I've released updated versions of all the plug-ins, it'll be quite safe for you to delete the ~/Loomer directory.

The legacy presets folder, on the other hand, will still be used if it exists. If you'd prefer to transition over to the $XDG_DATA_HOME directory, you should copy into it the entire ~/.Loomer directory. Or rename the ~/.Loomer directory, meaning the plug-in won't detect this existing folder, and forcing a new one to be created in the preferred location when the plug-in is instantiated.

[artfwo]

Thanks for fixing this, Colin! Gotta love the upcoming updates

[colin@loomer]

No problem. It'll aim to trickle updates for the other products out over the next week or two, so it won't be too long before the entire line supports the XDG Base Directory specs.

I've also now released Sequent 1.3.11; download it here. If you already have the most recent beta, there is little point in installing this which, aside from an update to the PDF manual, is the same as the previous build.

Thanks!