Valhalla DSP on iOS?

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Hi Sean,

Don't really know how familiar you are with this, but the upcoming app Audiobus on iOS is going to create a whole new market: the market of audio processing only apps.

http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/ ... ic-making/
As for other applications to expect: I think it's impossible to tell what people might come up with, but one example for a new app that can only exist after Audiobus has been launched would be an effects app that only does that: add effects to a live audio stream. It would not need to have additional input or output options, and developers would not have to bother with file management or add all sorts of settings and configuration options as they would have before Audiobus.

To put it in a nutshell: Audiobus will enable developers to create one-purpose apps that allow them to do one thing, and one thing well, without having to focus on all the miscellaneous problems that pre-Audiobus apps have to deal with.
I was wondering what are your intentions concerning this kind of developments. One can imagine that you could gather some of your most CPU-efficient existing codes and build effect apps from scratch, where the UI would be the most important development (assuming that your code could be compatible with the iOS platform).

Your thoughts?

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I've looked into iOS in the past, and will take a look at it again at some point.

The big issue for me is that I don't know if the iOS business model works for me. A few stats:

- I divided the number of available apps times the latest iOS app sales figures, and it looks like the mean (average) app makes just shy of $9K. When you take into account apps like Angry Birds and other big games, the median app will make far less money.

- Most apps I have seen sell in the 99 cents to $4.99 range, with a few outliers in the $10 or $20 range. If I was selling a plugin-type app, that was designed to work with another app using Audiobus, I doubt that I could sell it for more than $5 or so. This would probably piss off my existing customers who paid $50 for each of my plugins, so I'd have to make sure that the app was limited enough to not anger the purchasers of ValhallaRoom (say).

Most of my other objections to iOS might be taken care of by this AudioBus protocol, so I will keep my eye on this. I also need to see if Apple comes out with their own proprietary plugin format for iOS - especially since if they do, it will probably end up replacing Audio Units, so I'll need to get up to speed with how things work.

Thanks for bringing the AudioBus announcements to my attention!

Sean Costello

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...as long as you'd still do plugins for PC also, I'm fine with everything :). I think it's going the wrong way if people buy a new PC/mac plus handy plus i-pad plus whatever comes in the near future every (second) year or abouts. Sounds like absurdity to me, or made for people who have 4 heads sitting on their shoulders. But who knows, maybe hype-managers are right and in a few years the few who need a keyboard for typing will switch it into some very small iOS which will be replaced every second year. We'll see.

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Now that IOS has Audio Unit support, we really need some valhalla magic in there.

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Yes, please! I would pay the same for an iOS AU.
There are only 2 things i miss on iOS (beside a few limits about iOS itself)...better sampled instruments and a really good desktop class reverb.
A multi-touch device can offer even more interesting ways for live input.

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What DAWs have support for Audio Unit effects? Does GarageBand have this support as of yet? Last I checked (February 2016 or so) Garageband supported AU instruments, but not FX.

Sean Costello

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valhallasound wrote:What DAWs have support for Audio Unit effects? Does GarageBand have this support as of yet? Last I checked (February 2016 or so) Garageband supported AU instruments, but not FX.

Sean Costello
AUM, Multi-Track DAW, Cubasis, ModStep...there are a few more i think and more will be coming soon.
The "Audiobus" forum is the best place for such info!

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Cinebient wrote:Yes, please! I would pay the same for an iOS AU.
The thing is, that sentiment probably reflects about 5% of potential buyers. Nothing against Sean's quality. It's among the best, but I strongly doubt that I would spend $50 on am iOS app, let alone any single plugin. Besides, iOS licensing agreements are pretty restrictive. A lot of users are turned off by the inability to transfer a license. just my humble opinion.

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masterhiggins wrote:
Cinebient wrote:Yes, please! I would pay the same for an iOS AU.
The thing is, that sentiment probably reflects about 5% of potential buyers. Nothing against Sean's quality. It's among the best, but I strongly doubt that I would spend $50 on am iOS app, let alone any single plugin. Besides, iOS licensing agreements are pretty restrictive. A lot of users are turned off by the inability to transfer a license. just my humble opinion.
I agree that it would be hard to sell to the main crowd since even a (fantastic) Moog Modul 15 app is called "pricey" for 30 bucks. The problem with the iOS market is that apps are cheap from the beginning and people are used to it. But this might change in the future....at least i hope. Multi-touch is a big part of the future and windows still sucks here (just my personal opinion of course).
Yes, licence transfers are not possible yet. But at the other side you can install an app on as many devices like you want (as long as they binded to your account).
Another interesting thing could be a kind of remote app to control the desktop plugin f.e.
It seems still be a niche market but i think there is a huge market possible in the future so it could be smart at least to have an eye on the mobile market.
I can understand if Sean doesn´t want to go this route....iOS is also known as breaking stuff when updating the OS (but OSX isn´t better here). Apple need to change the app store rules in the near future to attract developers to make more "pro" apps.
At least i had to ask, since some tiny iOS apps just makes a lot more fun to use and offers more interesting ways to interacte live with sound and music. It just feels more like "future" often :borg:
There are a few good reverbs on iOS but nothing i could say that i doesn´t would need to use a desktop plug-in yet.

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people who buys "expensive"apps are not the general iOS consumers. In specific to music related apps a good share of people jump from a DAW and ahve an specific use.

korg module and gadget, lemur and some others are expensive for apps but it seems they sell well.
dedication to flying

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Well, as someone with a vested interest in iOS development, it seems to me that the way to make money in that market is via some kind of subscription service or via in-app purchases of consumables. So may I suggest that Valhalla DSP makes any iOS version cheap for an entry price, but with only a fixed number of reflections (for example). After you've used up your quota of reflections, you have to buy more via an in-app purchase.

Tongue only partly in cheek.

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blurk wrote:Well, as someone with a vested interest in iOS development, it seems to me that the way to make money in that market is via some kind of subscription service or via in-app purchases of consumables. So may I suggest that Valhalla DSP makes any iOS version cheap for an entry price, but with only a fixed number of reflections (for example). After you've used up your quota of reflections, you have to buy more via an in-app purchase.

Tongue only partly in cheek.
"99 cents for 10,000 eigenmodes. $9.99 for 200,000 eigenmodes. THE MORE EIGENMODES YOU BUY, THE MORE YOU SAVE!!!!!"

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valhallasound wrote:
blurk wrote:Well, as someone with a vested interest in iOS development, it seems to me that the way to make money in that market is via some kind of subscription service or via in-app purchases of consumables. So may I suggest that Valhalla DSP makes any iOS version cheap for an entry price, but with only a fixed number of reflections (for example). After you've used up your quota of reflections, you have to buy more via an in-app purchase.

Tongue only partly in cheek.
"99 cents for 10,000 eigenmodes. $9.99 for 200,000 eigenmodes. THE MORE EIGENMODES YOU BUY, THE MORE YOU SAVE!!!!!"

lol..

for X dollars you get X amount of all-pass filters...

there are people playing live and using iPads for FX processing or sample playing etc.. i think if you're gonna go into the iOS world the thing to do is just make a completely different processor/plug in/app..

figuring out the business model/pricing is not something for which i have any suggestions.

personally.. i don't have any need for iOS apps other than stuff that counts calories or checks weather.

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How about this: $5 gives you a single Valhalla preset. You do not get to adjust anything but the dry/wet mix. So you can have “Valhalla Concert Hall” $5 app which is the default “Concert Hall” settings for Valhalla Vintage Verb. And another $5 “Valhalla Fat Snare Hall” app. And another “Valhalla Live Vox Chamber” $5 app. Sell an app for each of the various VVV presets. Maybe have $20 “deluxe” presets which allow you to adjust the predelay, mix, and decay time — and nothing else.
Sam Trenholme — Software developer, electronic musician — Listen to my music: http://caulixtla.com/music

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dayjob wrote:
valhallasound wrote:
blurk wrote:Well, as someone with a vested interest in iOS development, it seems to me that the way to make money in that market is via some kind of subscription service or via in-app purchases of consumables. So may I suggest that Valhalla DSP makes any iOS version cheap for an entry price, but with only a fixed number of reflections (for example). After you've used up your quota of reflections, you have to buy more via an in-app purchase.

Tongue only partly in cheek.
"99 cents for 10,000 eigenmodes. $9.99 for 200,000 eigenmodes. THE MORE EIGENMODES YOU BUY, THE MORE YOU SAVE!!!!!"

lol..

for X dollars you get X amount of all-pass filters...

there are people playing live and using iPads for FX processing or sample playing etc.. i think if you're gonna go into the iOS world the thing to do is just make a completely different processor/plug in/app..

figuring out the business model/pricing is not something for which i have any suggestions.

personally.. i don't have any need for iOS apps other than stuff that counts calories or checks weather.
That could work. Ported versions of desktop apps are not the best thing always. A multi-touch device offers much more interesting things for live input and mostly the UI´s have to be different (and looks much better often too).
While professionals might use desktops for many years to come i think the little hobbyist which can be a huge market too will use such platforms more and more.
I used iOS for years now and migrated then to OSX but these old desktop OS offers mostly not such a fun when it comes to the creative side. Also there is not so much innovative software for me there.
Sound quality (especially reverbs) is still not there but i think that will change too.
Of course i could be totally wrong but i see many people getting rid of there hardware and desktop stuff because they just want to focus on a few things and want to have fun to create some music.
At least i wouldn´t count on OSX and windows only in a long term anymore...

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