I just tried the demo of Photosounder and I think it would be a program I'd like to buy, but there are a few things that annoy me or just don't work right. I'm using osx if that makes a difference.
Don't let me change the time resolution so low I get an out of memory error.
Have a way to turn off the graphical waveform display. The draw-in is really distracting.
Keyboard shortcuts to change spray size.
A keyboard modifier to force horizontal, vertical, or diagonal movement only.
Knobs look cool, but sliders are more accurate. At least let me double click on them so I can enter numerical values myself.
Some basic editor functions like being able to copy a section would be nice.
Are there plans to change any of these things? I'd like to buy Photosounder while it's on sale, but as it stands now I just don't get along with it.
Suggestions/roadmap
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- KVRian
- 1050 posts since 6 May, 2008 from Poland
>Don't let me change the time resolution so low I get an out of memory error.jonahs wrote:I just tried the demo of Photosounder and I think it would be a program I'd like to buy, but there are a few things that annoy me or just don't work right. I'm using osx if that makes a difference.
That'll be fixed when I make a 64-bit build. I'm working on it, but it's gonna take me some time as I have to recompile dependencies and also get rid of my Carbon code. This being said, you've gotta set the time resolution obscenely low to get that. How long is the sound supposed to be before it gives you the error? How many hours?
>Have a way to turn off the graphical waveform display. The draw-in is really distracting.
You can either reduce its size in config.txt or even change its colours by editing gfx/rainbow.png (so you can set them all to the same colour). What do you mean by "draw-in" though?
>Keyboard shortcuts to change spray size.
I don't get that, how would it work? By steps?
>A keyboard modifier to force horizontal, vertical, or diagonal movement only.
Already done for the Move tool if that's what you're asking (the shift key). I don't see what else you'd need it for.
>Knobs look cool, but sliders are more accurate. At least let me double click on them so I can enter numerical values myself.
Yeah that's in the plans. My knobs are deadly accurate though, mostly if you read in the manual how to use them and how they can be turned 100x more slowly.
>Some basic editor functions like being able to copy a section would be nice.
Well, you can duplicate a layer. What else would you need?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 464 posts since 27 Nov, 2009
Thanks for taking the time to respond!
>This being said, you've gotta set the time resolution obscenely low to get that. How long is the sound supposed to be before it gives you the error? How many hours?
I learn a program best by experimenting and go to the manual second. I just turn the knobs to see what happens. If for example I make a new file and drag the time/resolution knob to .01, it would be nice the program said: "Hey, this will crash me". Below about .5 on my system at least makes everything incredibly slow. Now that I think about it an off-line rendering mode would be awesome!
>What do you mean by "draw-in" though?
When I turn any of the knobs the graphical waveform will disappear and the pop/slide back in chunk by chunk. So as I turn the knobs the wave-form is constantly re-drawing horizontally across the screen. It's very distracting. Or if click the mouse to draw the waveform disappears.
I just set the waveform display height to zero and it really makes the program feel faster.
>A keyboard modifier to force horizontal, vertical, or diagonal movement only.
>Already done for the Move tool if that's what you're asking (the shift key). I don't see what else you'd need it for.
The spray tool. So I can draw perfect shapes. Sure, I can take the image into photoshop(where this is a feature) or gimp, but it's more fun/faster to stay in program.
>>Keyboard shortcuts to change spray size.
>I don't get that, how would it work? By steps?
Using something like the comma or period keys(or any keys next to each other) to change the pixels spray width would be great and the size increases exponentially i.e. the longer you hold it the faster it increases. Again It's just more fun/faster to draw if you don't have to keep stoping and going to the slider.
>Yeah that's in the plans. My knobs are deadly accurate though, mostly if you read in the manual how to use them and >how they can be turned 100x more slowly.
Good to know. On a trackpad at least I find turning knobs to be a really awkward motion.
>Some basic editor functions like being able to copy a section would be nice.
>Well, you can duplicate a layer. What else would you need?
A selection tool and an option to duplicate selection (with keyboard shortcut and duplicate to new layer too) would let me create rhythmic patterns easily. For example if I come across a 1 second sound in the middle of the image that I like I can then select it and copy/paste it over and over and draw on top of that or adding a new layer to draw subtle changes. Again I could go into a photo-editor, or my DAW, but it's not the best method for creativity. Looking at something like the drum beat example it would be nice to be able to copy just the bass and re-order it or something along those lines.
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I bought it anyways because I am getting interesting results. I really like the tools like the harmonics modifier. I think that the realtime controls as they are now are a bit of a red herring for me because I really need to bounce between Photosounder and an image editing program and wave editor. Once I adopted this method of working many of my frustrations with the program disappeared. It's quite a different method of sound creation for me. It's more akin to composing sheet music and I have to take a semi-aleatoric approach, depending on how much forethought I feel like putting into it.
Anyway, I just noticed that there is a suggestions thread that I somehow missed and I'll use that in the future. I look forward to seeing how Photosounder progresses.
>This being said, you've gotta set the time resolution obscenely low to get that. How long is the sound supposed to be before it gives you the error? How many hours?
I learn a program best by experimenting and go to the manual second. I just turn the knobs to see what happens. If for example I make a new file and drag the time/resolution knob to .01, it would be nice the program said: "Hey, this will crash me". Below about .5 on my system at least makes everything incredibly slow. Now that I think about it an off-line rendering mode would be awesome!
>What do you mean by "draw-in" though?
When I turn any of the knobs the graphical waveform will disappear and the pop/slide back in chunk by chunk. So as I turn the knobs the wave-form is constantly re-drawing horizontally across the screen. It's very distracting. Or if click the mouse to draw the waveform disappears.
I just set the waveform display height to zero and it really makes the program feel faster.
>A keyboard modifier to force horizontal, vertical, or diagonal movement only.
>Already done for the Move tool if that's what you're asking (the shift key). I don't see what else you'd need it for.
The spray tool. So I can draw perfect shapes. Sure, I can take the image into photoshop(where this is a feature) or gimp, but it's more fun/faster to stay in program.
>>Keyboard shortcuts to change spray size.
>I don't get that, how would it work? By steps?
Using something like the comma or period keys(or any keys next to each other) to change the pixels spray width would be great and the size increases exponentially i.e. the longer you hold it the faster it increases. Again It's just more fun/faster to draw if you don't have to keep stoping and going to the slider.
>Yeah that's in the plans. My knobs are deadly accurate though, mostly if you read in the manual how to use them and >how they can be turned 100x more slowly.
Good to know. On a trackpad at least I find turning knobs to be a really awkward motion.
>Some basic editor functions like being able to copy a section would be nice.
>Well, you can duplicate a layer. What else would you need?
A selection tool and an option to duplicate selection (with keyboard shortcut and duplicate to new layer too) would let me create rhythmic patterns easily. For example if I come across a 1 second sound in the middle of the image that I like I can then select it and copy/paste it over and over and draw on top of that or adding a new layer to draw subtle changes. Again I could go into a photo-editor, or my DAW, but it's not the best method for creativity. Looking at something like the drum beat example it would be nice to be able to copy just the bass and re-order it or something along those lines.
-----
I bought it anyways because I am getting interesting results. I really like the tools like the harmonics modifier. I think that the realtime controls as they are now are a bit of a red herring for me because I really need to bounce between Photosounder and an image editing program and wave editor. Once I adopted this method of working many of my frustrations with the program disappeared. It's quite a different method of sound creation for me. It's more akin to composing sheet music and I have to take a semi-aleatoric approach, depending on how much forethought I feel like putting into it.
Anyway, I just noticed that there is a suggestions thread that I somehow missed and I'll use that in the future. I look forward to seeing how Photosounder progresses.
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- KVRian
- 1050 posts since 6 May, 2008 from Poland
>I learn a program best by experimenting and go to the manual second. I just turn the knobs to see what happens. If for example I make a new file and drag the time/resolution knob to .01, it would be nice the program said: "Hey, this will crash me". Below about .5 on my system at least makes everything incredibly slow. Now that I think about it an off-line rendering mode would be awesome!
Well, I guess that for that precise case there could be a way the program could cancel the time resolution change when the memory allocation will fail. I'll look into that. This being said, my plan is to make a live synthesis mode, so it would work especially well for extreme time stretching as you wouldn't have to store the entire hours-long result. You could even make the sound be at a standstill forever, also you'll be able to hear the result of your knob tweaking or image editing as you do it. So in a way you could use that to hear what you do live, and when you'd want to save the whole thing then it would "offline render" it to file.
>When I turn any of the knobs the graphical waveform will disappear and the pop/slide back in chunk by chunk. So as I turn the knobs the wave-form is constantly re-drawing horizontally across the screen. It's very distracting. Or if click the mouse to draw the waveform disappears.
Well, that shows you which part of the sound is available for playback, which part is currently being rendered and which part is yet to be touched. Although it won't be necessary once I get live synthesis working.
>The spray tool. So I can draw perfect shapes.
Ah, you mean, you want to draw straight lines? Well, a line tool (and a spline tool too) is in the plans. But at the moment I have a huge TODO list from having so much to do and having people ask me so many things.
>A selection tool and an option to duplicate selection (with keyboard shortcut and duplicate to new layer too) would let me create rhythmic patterns easily. For example if I come across a 1 second sound in the middle of the image that I like I can then select it and copy/paste it over and over and draw on top of that or adding a new layer to draw subtle changes. Again I could go into a photo-editor, or my DAW, but it's not the best method for creativity. Looking at something like the drum beat example it would be nice to be able to copy just the bass and re-order it or something along those lines.
Well, if you ask me how I'd do that as it is, I'd duplicate the layer and hide the parts I want to hide. It wouldn't make sense to do that in Photoshop cause it's got opacities, but in Photosounder there's no such thing as opacities, by default it's all additive, so in a way black is the same thing as transparent. So if you think about it, darkening the parts you don't want is quite efficient and straight forwards.
As for replicating several parts, while you could just duplicate a layer and move it, there's a perhaps smarter way that's unique to Photosounder. With your unique instrument on one layer, you create a new layer on top of it, then you draw dots where you want the duplicates to be, the first point being supposed to be the point of reference with respect to the original copy (so you should place it where you see the start of the instrument below). By setting that layer to Convolution you'll have duplicates of the instrument placed where all the points are. The advantage of this is if you change anything to the original instrument, it will replicate on all "copies". Also on the dots layer you can make some dots darker or brighter. Note that if you only want to propagate in time you might want to Vertical Average the dots so they make vertical lines, and use Horizontal Propagation instead of Convolution, it's perhaps more convenient this way.
This way to replicate an instrument is also nice in that it separates the instrument sound from the score, so that's a lot like what you can do with your DAW. Plus you can use effects on your dots score like the Group to Nearest Semitone effect to make all dots be in tune.
>I bought it anyways because I am getting interesting results. I really like the tools like the harmonics modifier. I think that the realtime controls as they are now are a bit of a red herring for me because I really need to bounce between Photosounder and an image editing program and wave editor. Once I adopted this method of working many of my frustrations with the program disappeared. It's quite a different method of sound creation for me. It's more akin to composing sheet music and I have to take a semi-aleatoric approach, depending on how much forethought I feel like putting into it.
I really don't use an external image editor anymore, Photosounder has most of what it needs. The way it works is just subtantially different from both audio editors and image editors.
Well, I guess that for that precise case there could be a way the program could cancel the time resolution change when the memory allocation will fail. I'll look into that. This being said, my plan is to make a live synthesis mode, so it would work especially well for extreme time stretching as you wouldn't have to store the entire hours-long result. You could even make the sound be at a standstill forever, also you'll be able to hear the result of your knob tweaking or image editing as you do it. So in a way you could use that to hear what you do live, and when you'd want to save the whole thing then it would "offline render" it to file.
>When I turn any of the knobs the graphical waveform will disappear and the pop/slide back in chunk by chunk. So as I turn the knobs the wave-form is constantly re-drawing horizontally across the screen. It's very distracting. Or if click the mouse to draw the waveform disappears.
Well, that shows you which part of the sound is available for playback, which part is currently being rendered and which part is yet to be touched. Although it won't be necessary once I get live synthesis working.
>The spray tool. So I can draw perfect shapes.
Ah, you mean, you want to draw straight lines? Well, a line tool (and a spline tool too) is in the plans. But at the moment I have a huge TODO list from having so much to do and having people ask me so many things.
>A selection tool and an option to duplicate selection (with keyboard shortcut and duplicate to new layer too) would let me create rhythmic patterns easily. For example if I come across a 1 second sound in the middle of the image that I like I can then select it and copy/paste it over and over and draw on top of that or adding a new layer to draw subtle changes. Again I could go into a photo-editor, or my DAW, but it's not the best method for creativity. Looking at something like the drum beat example it would be nice to be able to copy just the bass and re-order it or something along those lines.
Well, if you ask me how I'd do that as it is, I'd duplicate the layer and hide the parts I want to hide. It wouldn't make sense to do that in Photoshop cause it's got opacities, but in Photosounder there's no such thing as opacities, by default it's all additive, so in a way black is the same thing as transparent. So if you think about it, darkening the parts you don't want is quite efficient and straight forwards.
As for replicating several parts, while you could just duplicate a layer and move it, there's a perhaps smarter way that's unique to Photosounder. With your unique instrument on one layer, you create a new layer on top of it, then you draw dots where you want the duplicates to be, the first point being supposed to be the point of reference with respect to the original copy (so you should place it where you see the start of the instrument below). By setting that layer to Convolution you'll have duplicates of the instrument placed where all the points are. The advantage of this is if you change anything to the original instrument, it will replicate on all "copies". Also on the dots layer you can make some dots darker or brighter. Note that if you only want to propagate in time you might want to Vertical Average the dots so they make vertical lines, and use Horizontal Propagation instead of Convolution, it's perhaps more convenient this way.
This way to replicate an instrument is also nice in that it separates the instrument sound from the score, so that's a lot like what you can do with your DAW. Plus you can use effects on your dots score like the Group to Nearest Semitone effect to make all dots be in tune.
>I bought it anyways because I am getting interesting results. I really like the tools like the harmonics modifier. I think that the realtime controls as they are now are a bit of a red herring for me because I really need to bounce between Photosounder and an image editing program and wave editor. Once I adopted this method of working many of my frustrations with the program disappeared. It's quite a different method of sound creation for me. It's more akin to composing sheet music and I have to take a semi-aleatoric approach, depending on how much forethought I feel like putting into it.
I really don't use an external image editor anymore, Photosounder has most of what it needs. The way it works is just subtantially different from both audio editors and image editors.
