KVR Audio

krispi · Post by **krispi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:38 pm

Hello!

I've searched around the net and found no answer. I have this problem :

I want to record some audio in Cubase. Most often I'll plug in an instrument over prerecorded or VSTi tracks and start playing. But the output channels bleed into the input channel! It doesn't matter if it's a wave track or a VSTi track - or even the metronome click, I can hear it - depending on gain - more or less faintly on the track I've recorded on the input channel.

I use headphones to monitor my playing but this shouldn't be a problem - I use no microphones for recording and for example my bass has a passive mic setup. I find this annoying since I can't get a clean instrument track to play around with.. Any suggestions where to go from here? Is this a hardware problem or a software problem?

I've tried all of the inputs on my soundcard to no avail. I'm using a ESI (Ego-Sys) WaMi Rack 24 (4x balanced plug + preamp in).

Thanks.
- K -

cimoc · Post by **cimoc** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 1:57 pm

Can you elaborate on the routing? Do you use a hardware mixer?

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:03 pm

Sounds like your hardware is set up to record both your input and your output. Funny: you usually have to change the default settings to get Cubase to record its input. If I recall correctly, the Wamirack has rather flexible routing software? I'd check there; you need to get just the physical input recorded, and it's not a Cubase-thing; I have to do some configuring with my EMU to record Cubase's output.

darcyb62 · Post by **darcyb62** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:20 pm

I had a similar problem with a Tascam US122. My solution was to find a different soundcard.

krispi · Post by **krispi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 2:57 pm

No hardware mixing. It's true that the WaMi Rack driver console has different routing options (DirectWire), but no connections are made. Everything is currently on a clean install (one week!) of Windows XP, the driver and Cubase.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:19 pm

It could be electrical bleed-through from the outputs to the inputs, but only if the level is really really low, like below -60dB. In that case there ain't no other cure other than get another audio card.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 3:37 pm

krispi wrote:No hardware mixing. It's true that the WaMi Rack driver console has different routing options (DirectWire), but no connections are made. Everything is currently on a clean install (one week!) of Windows XP, the driver and Cubase.

Uh huh. Well, maybe something has to be bypassed or re-routed in the WamiRack? How about Cubase's VST Connections panel? What is your input source on your recording track?

krispi · Post by **krispi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:08 pm

Some measurements with a drumtrack playing and a channel set to record :

On mono input with +4dBv BAL volume -6.0 : -73.5dB (L/R) -80dB (sum, peak) with Waves PAZ meter.

Turning the volume all the way up to 31.5 on the input PAZ meter gives me -43.4dB (L/R) and -49.6dB (sum, peak)

It gets even louder with the preamp on.

One solution comes to mind of course that this soundcard isn't meant to be quiet on high input volumes (though I reckon it should be!) and I should record through a DI box.

krispi · Post by **krispi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:10 pm

bduffy wrote: Uh huh. Well, maybe something has to be bypassed or re-routed in the WamiRack? How about Cubase's VST Connections panel? What is your input source on your recording track?

Sources on VST Connections panel are correct.

bduffy · Post by **bduffy** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:13 pm

So your input is your Line 1, or whatever, and you get a mix of input + output. Weird. We get that at work on the Nuendo machine, but that's because of a relatively complex surround setup with an O2R, etc.

I dunno. It beats me, sorry.

BertKoor · Post by **BertKoor** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:18 pm

It is electrical bleed-through from the outputs to the inputs. Due to bad design. There ain't no other cure other than get another audio card. And keep the levels output + input levels low...

stag · Post by **stag** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:43 pm

Look on Devices\VST connections, check your routing, disable direct monitor.
Well, the last one i don't know if it helps but doesn't hurt to try.

krispi · Post by **krispi** » Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:46 pm

Very well.. bad luck, I guess. I think I'll opt for the DI solution for the moment - otherwise this card is hefty, sounds great and I got it second hand for pretty cheap so I think I can live with the bad design - not what I'd expect from a professional card though :S

A big thank you to all who replied!

Justriffs · Post by **Justriffs** » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:57 am

I have experienced the same track bleeding. I am using the steinberg ur12 which has only 2 inputs. I discovered that when recoding audio tracks if i set my inputs under vst connections under stereo in left to input 1 and right to input 2, then pan the master fader hard right when recording using input 1 and pan master fader hard left when recording input 2, the bleeding is gone. the track being recorded can stay panned center. use the monitor button on the track being recorded to hear the instrument. The problem with this is when recording with input 1 & 2 at the same time there is still bleed. So only one track can be recorded at a time using this method. When playing back remember to then pan master back to center and turn off monitor button. This is primitive but i hope it helps. Will continue to find a better way. But for now this seems to work.

Bubbamusic · Post by **Bubbamusic** » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:10 pm

Now this has been nearly a decade, but I had a similar problem the first time that I recorded a vocal in Cubase. I had two inputs, one with more latency than the other. It was an XP problem. I pulled up some virtual mixer in XP and turned one pot to zero and everything cleared up forever. I can't duplicate it. I am now running 10 64.

Track bleeding in Cubase (output -> input)