Building a Dedicated Soft Synth Computer?

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I have been using hardware synths predominantly in my studio configuration for many years. Lately, I've been toying with idea of building a dedicated soft synth computer to possibly convert some of my hardware synth over to software versions now that it appears the processing power finally may be capable of do this.

While there is a wealth of information regarding soft synths and even individual computer requirements per each manufactures products, I haven't found much clear info accumulative requirements beyond speculation at best.

A good example of what I'm would put together is a windows xp based tower system 2.66 dual core, 2GB RAM, 350 GB 7200 HD with a pci audio/midi card. Midi in/out on the pc would go into a standard midi interface which is connected to a separate Mac DAW. The PC would essentially be a "hardware device". Composing would be done in a MIDI environment, then complete songs track recorded to digital audio.

Ideally, for example purposes, I would looking to run one instance or more simultaneously of each on separate midi channels:

NI FM8
Korg WS/M1 Legacy digital version
Sonic Projects OP-8
Waldorf PPG
Modular Moog V2

(A possible software based sampler)

This only makes sense to do if I can run these effectively all at the same time rather than one or two. I would just stick with hardware in that case. Also, I would like to know some comparable benchmarks of what other users configurations are and what/how many soft synth can be used effectively at the same time.

Thanks!

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Hi synthmanDS,
synthmanDS wrote: A good example of what I'm would put together is a windows xp based tower system 2.66 dual core, 2GB RAM, 350 GB 7200 HD with a pci audio/midi card.

NI FM8
Korg WS/M1 Legacy digital version
Sonic Projects OP-8
Waldorf PPG
Modular Moog V2
though you're example setup should have enough power to run a fair number of instances of the synths mentioned, for a pure VSTi-playback machine I wouldn't go for a 7200 but a 5400 drive instead. And I also would take 4GB of memory and a Core2Quad processor. In terms of initial expenses it's not so much more, but in terms of "computing power" it rather is in the longer run.

How would you transfer the audio over into your MacDaw? Analog or digital? Do you plan to record the VSTi-submixes only, or is multi-channel transfer/recording required? Maybe a Muse receptor is what you're really after in the end?


synthmanDS wrote: This only makes sense to do if I can run these effectively all at the same time rather than one or two.
You know, there is a plenty of more parameters affecting the load of your machine than a "simple" plugin type, don't you? :wink: Patch-complexitiy, voices played, oversampling and so forth.

To sum up: I think you could do a lot with your example setup, but I vote for more memory and a better processor from the beginning - or to take a closer look at the Muse receptor.


Cheers,
LiteOn

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The simple reality is that computing power is running away from what audio needs for nearly all hobby musicians. Many of the most recent set-ups would qualify as the 2X4 to kill an ant cliche.

That said, RAM is your friend as long as your processor is anything put out in the past 2 years. (not the low end stuff but any decent one) Thinking any of the Phenom X2,3,4 and up for AMD and any of the core2duo and up from Intel.

Use this awesome chart to get a gauge of speed:
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/common_cpus.html

I have an Athlon 64 3700+ (Passmark score of 538) currently and it can handle almost everything I've thrown at it. I'm about to build a new system in the next month and I'll be getting a processor with a Passmark of at least 2K to make it worth my while but any of those above 1K can do a lot for you.
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Thanks for the info everyone.
for a pure VSTi-playback machine I wouldn't go for a 7200 but a 5400 drive instead
why use a slower drive?
How would you transfer the audio over into your MacDaw? Analog or digital? Do you plan to record the VSTi-submixes only, or is multi-channel transfer/recording required? Maybe a Muse receptor is what you're really after in the end?
Everything is composed in midi first where all instruments are playing soft and hard, then when the song is finished, individually track the analog audio by playing the soloed midi track for each instrument/midi channel.

Muse Receptor is too expensive. I could build an entire PC for less than half the price that does so much more. A base Receptor 2 is a single core processor also, but 64 bit. I'm not quite ready for the 64 bit route just yet, or am I? The SM Audio V-rack is a consideration (if its ever released), but you still have to edit on a computer so you may as well use a computer and save the money and gain the flexibility. This is for studio use primarily. Plus I dont know if the v-rack can play more than one soft synth at a time on seperate midi channels?
I have an Athlon 64 3700+ (Passmark score of 538) currently and it can handle almost everything I've thrown at it.
That's encouraging. The intel dule core I specked in my original post is rate at 1,622. What are some examples of "everything"?
You know, there is a plenty of more parameters affecting the load of your machine than a "simple" plugin type, don't you? Wink Patch-complexitiy, voices played, oversampling and so forth.
Well, thats why I'm asking. How does one know how to go about factoring this in to make an informed decision rather than just speculation or guessing when configuring a system prior to purchase? The manufactures post what the minimum requirements are to run the soft synth. But if you want to run 5 different ones at the same time, it isnt the minimums for each times 5. That would exceed every processor that currently exists and not the correct way to caculate rquirements.

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synthmanDS wrote:why use a slower drive?
A drive only needs to be 7200+ when running the drive for sample playback functions. If sample playback is not involved, a drive running at lower RPMs would incur less wear and tear, increasing it's lifespan considerably. Just a guess, but I could be completely wrong though :)

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synthmanDS wrote:
NI FM8
Korg WS/M1 Legacy digital version
Sonic Projects OP-8
Waldorf PPG
Modular Moog V2

(A possible software based sampler)

This only makes sense to do if I can run these effectively all at the same time rather than one or two. I would just stick with hardware in that case. Also, I would like to know some comparable benchmarks of what other users configurations are and what/how many soft synth can be used effectively at the same time.

Thanks!
Rest assured, you are underestimating what a PC with lower specs than you've described can do.

One instance of each of those, plus say 16 tracks of audio and delay-based effects on each channel is not a huge load.

One thing that might be tricky, both in terms of hardware and software and configuration, is setting up performance control for all those instruments.

Because I also have setup a DAW as more of a musical instrument than a multitrack recorder, I think in terms of control and ergonomics from the point of view of the performer. Ultimately what I want to be able to do, is flip one switch, and have as many parameters as I possibly can, accessible from the keyboards, and preferably *with my feet*.

DAW software tends to be opinionated, and generally assumes that the performer has no problem taking his hands away from a keyboard controller, looking at a LCD screen, and moving parameters around with a mouse and/or typing keyboard. This is *so* not what I want to be doing on stage, during a song. Ideally, I want to boot the thing and turn the display off (or never even plug it in) knowing that every parameter I want to tweak during a performance has already been setup.

This turns out to be a very hard to reach, long-term goal, and devices like the Receptor don't really take me any closer to it.

just my .02

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synthman - are you in the USA and what are you thinking of spending? i want to add up and see what you can get.. let's see if we can beat the receptor price wise..

like - maybe you want a rack case? because there are different degrees of quality on those...

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ford442 wrote:
like - maybe you want a rack case? because there are different degrees of quality on those...
And just as importantly, PC rack cases tend to be designed for server racks which are very deep. And they tend to be very noisy.

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rlahalla wrote:
synthmanDS wrote:why use a slower drive?
A drive only needs to be 7200+ when running the drive for sample playback functions. If sample playback is not involved, a drive running at lower RPMs would incur less wear and tear, increasing it's lifespan considerably. Just a guess, but I could be completely wrong though :)
Yep, it's simply not needed for VSTi playback. So why not just going the less noisy route.


Cheers,
LiteOn

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Except for VSTis that read samples from disk on-the-fly (NI's "Direct From Disk" etc)? Or should such disk streaming be avoided anyway?
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Last edited by Throbert on Thu Aug 20, 2009 12:21 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Chemik wrote:The simple reality is that computing power is running away from what audio needs for nearly all hobby musicians. Many of the most recent set-ups would qualify as the 2X4 to kill an ant cliche.
Just don't buy Synth Squad, Omnisphere and similar future products for which powerful computers are no luxury at all. ;)
The more I hang around at KVR the less music I make.

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Timfonie wrote:
Chemik wrote:The simple reality is that computing power is running away from what audio needs for nearly all hobby musicians. Many of the most recent set-ups would qualify as the 2X4 to kill an ant cliche.
Just don't buy Synth Squad, Omnisphere and similar future products for which powerful computers are no luxury at all. ;)
I was just about to name the same two synths .... :hihi:


Cheers,
LiteOn

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A drive only needs to be 7200+ when running the drive for sample playback functions.
I would rather have it in case I need it. Some noted reading samples from soft synths as an example. One day this may be used as a DAW too. This isn't as critical issue as selecting the correct processor speed for starters.
One thing that might be tricky, both in terms of hardware and software and configuration, is setting up performance control for all those instruments.
Yeah, I haven't quite got that far yet. Ideally, you want a soft synth host that has some sort of virtual mixer. Mapping controller cc's is pretty straight forward if you have a capable external control surface or synth.

To do it live and have it switchable for each instrument in real time will be considerable more challenging as point out.
synthman - are you in the USA and what are you thinking of spending? i want to add up and see what you can get.. let's see if we can beat the receptor price wise..
Yes, U.S., there is no question you can beat the receptors price -easy. (Even the V-Rack will do that.)

Lets take for instance this system I put together through http://www.ecollegepc.com . I found this place by accident a few years ago on ebay. Their prices are great and you can configure your own system from barebone to a full gaming machine. They even have cubes and laptops but,laptops pricing inst the best value I found.

I encourage you to check them if considering a new computer. If nothing else you can use their on-line tool to put a system together for pricing and spec.

This new system with 1 year warranty, Window XP Pro included (no monitor includes keyboard/mouse):

2.93Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo E7500 3MB Cache FSB 1066
Masscool Quiet W553B1M3 26.2dBA
GIGABYTE GA-EP43-UD3L (Intel P43, PCIEx, 8-Channel Audio, LAN, 4xSATA2, 4xDDR2, 1333FSB)
4GB (2GBx2) PC6400 DDR2 800Mhz Memory Lifetime Warranty
500GB 7200RPM 16MB Cache Serial ATA300
22X LG Dual Layer DVD+/-RW/CDRW w/Nero
Onboard Video
Microsoft Windows XP Professional SP3
Foxconn Black FX-TS001A (3 5.25, 5 3.5 bays) 2 Fans, Front Audio/USB
400watt Stock Supply included with Case
Onboard LAN included
Wireless B/G PCI Adapter
Onboard Sound included
Black PS2 Internet Keyboard
PS2 Black Optical Mouse with Scroll
Internal All in 1 Card Reader
Standard 1 year parts and labor

$577.00 +50 shipping and handling $626.00 total. That's a smoking deal for one hell of a machine in my opinion. Add 100 for M-Audio Audiophile 2496 PCI audio/midi card and you are in business. You can even get a 3 year warranty if you want!

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